Mild-build Compounds

[JonathanN]

I ran a 46 but I think a 44 would be fine..

Might be 46, I don't know... I haven't looked too hard at what's out there yet.

Going to be upgrading to 250/200s and swap in a buddy's s362 at a few pulls this next season, local 2.5 class will be teching harder this year so I'm going to swap turbos to see how it does

Post up your results when that happens...

 

[lincolnlocker]

I'm all about cool stuff that is different but with a goal of 500 why not just run a 366 single with a gate, it'll get you there and spool quick. You're about to spend more on just a turbo setup than what it'll cost to have a rock solid 500hp setup. I would also go to a bigger injector. A 160/100 probably won't hit 500hp, I only know one guy that has hit that high of hp with a small sized injector like that. You are looking at to much turbo and to little injector for a good combo.

prolly not doing it for an all out hp build.... how bout smoke free 500hp. i already had it figured out with compounds or a procharger with the same ole turd in my sig. who's the guy you speak of?

 

[Powerstroke Cowboy]

I would say a S475 would be to small for 250/200 in a compound setup. As a single yes and the atmo in a compound setup no. You will never have the turbo up to full song. In the compound setup you will only want to see 20 to 25 psi out of it verses 40 to 50 in a single setup. (unless you wanted to run crazy amounts of boost) In order to get it to full song you will see boost in the 70+ PSi range. And then all you are doing is making more heat. Now if you had the air to back up the boost that would be one thing. With 250/200 I would recommend at least a 82mm Billet comp wheel, If not billet I would say 86 or 88mm. You have to remember you will only see maybe 20 to 25 psi from the atmo charger. That is why you need the bigger turbo. Besides a good rule of thumb is you want the atmo to flow twice as much air as the high pressure turbo. Other whys all you are doing is shooting yourself in the foot. The S362 flows about 74 LB/MIN The S475 Flows about 105 LB/MIN And the Billet S482 flows about 130 LB/MIN That is the reason would shoot for closer to a 88mm if you go cast or 82 if you go billet, The S475 works good for 5.9 cummins but just is not enough air for the 7.3 .

 

[JonathanN]

For a smaller injectors like 160's or 200's, would you still run that big of an atmosphere?

 

[TyCorr]

No...you're getting numbers for a compound setup fueled by 250/200.

If you want to run a tiny injector use a smaller hp and a smaller atmosphere.

 

[lincolnlocker]

For a smaller injectors like 160's or 200's, would you still run that big of an atmosphere?

what most of these guys are saying is that there isn't really any need to run that small of an injector in a compound setup due to there being so many turbos that can handle those injectors just fine... now if your like me and wanted a SMOKE FREE 500hp, the s362, s366 or 38r would be fine for the high pressure s475, or similar, would be fine for the atmo....

 

[JonathanN]

The 362 could flow up to 74lb/min, but what it actually flows depends on the pressure ratio which then depends on how the setup works and I honestly have no clue of that until it's together and working in front of me. Figuring pressure ratios for a compound setup is completely different anyways. And yeah, high boost pressures create "heat", but nothing compared to exhaust temperatures. At a good 50-60lbs of boost at WOT under load and only 70lbs of back pressure if it was set up and tuned right, I'd say the objective was met... I doubt enough "heat" to be a problem.

 

[JonathanN]

what most of these guys are saying is that there isn't really any need to run that small of an injector in a compound setup due to there being so many turbos that can handle those injectors just fine... now if your like me and wanted a SMOKE FREE 500hp, the s362, s366 or 38r would be fine for the high pressure s475, or similar, would be fine for the atmo....

I'm not looking for big HP numbers... I just want a clean, efficient 400-500hp. Truck needs to stay together and stay reliable, it'd my DD and my baby.

 

[JonathanN]

No...you're getting numbers for a compound setup fueled by 250/200.

If you want to run a tiny injector use a smaller hp and a smaller atmosphere.

I understand that... that's why I asked about smaller sticks. Because according to what he was saying, then I either needed a smaller HP so my LP wouldn't be so big for my smaller injectors, or my LP was too small period.

 

[TyCorr]

Yea. Its all talking in circles now.

People think its nuts to try to.compound at that power level but if you want to. :thumbsup:

I think you'll be looking to smaller chargers. Anything 66mm in size is going to be running in the teens for boost with all the fuel you have. As you gate the high pressure you're sending more drive to the atmosphere and in turn you are creating more boost. In theory anyway.

Wouldnt he want to run something large enough for a lp that he doesnt need a gate? Be kinda stupid tobrun something that needed a gate. Maybe run a 480 and let it turn sub 20psi.

Need compressor maps.

 

[lincolnlocker]

I'm not looking for big HP numbers... I just want a clean, efficient 400-500hp. Truck needs to stay together and stay reliable, it'd my DD and my baby.

well what is it you want then? 400hp clean and efficient can be done easily with 160/100s with a billet wheeled 38r or the new brute 66 from nltd or the s366... now it might be a stretch for 160s to hit near 500hp but im sure can be north of 450hp with compounds and be CLEAN and efficient with no smoke.. my dually is north of 450hp the way it sits but it has some smoke that could be cleared up if i wanted to do what i said in previous posts...

 

[JonathanN]

I guess my idea of big HP numbers is 550+... what you describe is what I'm shooting for with compounds and a smaller injector such as a 160/100. However, I might go a little larger, I don't know yet. But that was the idea behind the compounds was to make it clean and fun.

 

[Vader's Fury]

250/200's and a s362/s475 combo is what I want to run on the 350 if I ever get it back together. Just want a setup that will tow and dd nice with decent power. Should easily make enough power to tow anything I want and be plenty for sporting around.

 

[lincolnlocker]

250/200's and a s362/s475 combo is what I want to run on the 350 if I ever get it back together. Just want a setup that will tow and dd nice with decent power. Should easily make enough power to tow anything I want and be plenty for sporting around.

that set up right there could be tuned to an easy 450+ smoke free hp.. or if gated correctly around 600hp.. but why mess with or spend the money on the 362? why not just a billet wheeled stock turbo with a 1.15 exhaust housing?

 

[TyCorr]

When I had the dually live tuned, and jonathan was done I asked him if the fuel was maxed out. He said he could add more fuel to it but jt would drop hp. So to better fully understand it I asked him to add the fuel and not change any other parameters. He did, fogged black smoke and dropped 20hp. Just saying is all... again maybe it proves how much more of a freak my truck is.

live life full throttle

Sounds like he added pw and it wasnt able to use the fuel. You were spraying fuel where it was doing no good. Thats what I get out of that. And it is what I was describing in a previous post.

Then we got on what a 160 has for capacity. I heard from several guys who run big shops injector builders/tuners/and diesel shops that a 160 can be getting close to empty with those larger nozzles. Without learning to tune, build injectors and flow them, and spenfing time with many different injectors and turbo.setups I can only go off what someone like matt @gearhead tells me. :shrug: know what I mean Vern?

I dont wanna trample this.guys ideas. I think it'd be tits if he got a 450rwhp compounded tow truck built. That'd be a monster with a load behind it.

 

[TyCorr]

that set up right there could be tuned to an easy 450+ smoke free hp.. or if gated correctly around 600hp..

Hell yea. Imagine working a truck like that.

 

[Vader's Fury]

that set up right there could be tuned to an easy 450+ smoke free hp.. or if gated correctly around 600hp..

Exactly. I bet I could even tune it back to less than 300 and still be no worse than stock spool up. Or with the right gate setup, knock on 600 and shred the tires.

 

[lincolnlocker]

Sounds like he added pw and it wasnt able to use the fuel. You were spraying fuel where it was doing no good. Thats what I get out of that. And it is what I was describing in a previous post.

Then we got on what a 160 has for capacity. I heard from several guys who run big shops injector builders/tuners/and diesel shops that a 160 can be getting close to empty with those larger nozzles. Without learning to tune, build injectors and flow them, and spenfing time with many different injectors and turbo.setups I can only go off what someone like matt @gearhead tells me. :shrug: know what I mean Vern?

I dont wanna trample this.guys ideas. I think it'd be tits if he got a 450rwhp compounded tow truck built. That'd be a monster with a load behind it.

oh i know what ya mean, i was just simply stating that i have more fuel on tap at the time... but yeah it would be a sweet smoke free set up..

Hell yea. Imagine working a truck like that.

yep

Exactly. I bet I could even tune it back to less than 300 and still be no worse than stock spool up. Or with the right gate setup, knock on 600 and shred the tires.

for sure... i added more to my post and must not have done it sooner then you responded.

 

[Vader's Fury]

that set up right there could be tuned to an easy 450+ smoke free hp.. or if gated correctly around 600hp.. but why mess with or spend the money on the 362? why not just a billet wheeled stock turbo with a 1.15 exhaust housing?

I can get a s362 for approx 750. By time I rebuild a stock turbo with the billet wheel and a 1.15 housing the cost might be more for what I believe would be a weaker charger. I actually thought about this and have a van turbo I bought just for this purpose before I started laying everything out and realized that the 362 was a better option.

Also the up pipes would have to be modified for bellows and a waste gate so why not just jump to a t-4 mount and be all around better off.

The t-4 mount leaves way more options for later down the road as well, be it to go bigger, or to sell everything and return truck to stock.

 

[JonathanN]

Sounds like he added pw and it wasnt able to use the fuel. You were spraying fuel where it was doing no good. Thats what I get out of that. And it is what I was describing in a previous post.

Then we got on what a 160 has for capacity. I heard from several guys who run big shops injector builders/tuners/and diesel shops that a 160 can be getting close to empty with those larger nozzles. Without learning to tune, build injectors and flow them, and spenfing time with many different injectors and turbo.setups I can only go off what someone like matt @gearhead tells me. :shrug: know what I mean Vern?

I dont wanna trample this.guys ideas. I think it'd be tits if he got a 450rwhp compounded tow truck built. That'd be a monster with a load behind it.

That's the plan... I may run a larger injector, I don't know yet. I can always go larger with the LP or even waste gate it if I can't keep the boost levels down. But I do appreciate not being bashed... it's a different idea, but I think it'd be great.

I don't know if Mattbuilds injectors but if he does, then I'm sure he flow tests them too. I really doubt he'd see so differently from Casserly if that was the case... I know there has been some discrepancies in the past between builders and tuners.