My Redemption build
- Thread starter KCTurbos
- Start date
swinky
New member
Converter converter converter. Stock stall I'm guessing?
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1800 stall DPC converter. I did not want a loose converter for my Daily driver. I am in a lot of stop and go traffic
I am going to go a little higher in my race truck
swinky
New member
Have you daily driven a truck with a 2200? You don't even notice the difference.
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No I have never daily driven one... but I have driven around in friends/customers higher stall converter trucks and it makes it feel a little sloppy.
kwelch08
New member
Nice write up Charlie. It's nice to have someone giving insight on both setups back to back.
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strokin6L
Active member
My RCD billet converter has a 1800 stall also. But depending on power, I was told that it could actually stall higher. The 1800 stall is what I was recommended for my setup
03cody
Member
my truck has the dpc quad disk which I believe is a 22 or 2400 stall. I literally cannot tell a difference from the stock converter......other than it holds like a beast haha.
I got some video's to help show my s364.5 experience better. I tried to edit out the long boring parts (driving video was like 10min long).
This is a video just showing the tailpipe and tires while driving around town. I tried just about every combination of spirited "take-offs" to show different styles of driving. I know many are going to laugh and say "what smoke?" or "I wish I had more smoke". I personally like clean running setups and have grown to be very embarrassed when my truck rolls a little coal, especially in 6 lanes of traffic with lots of people around. I know I am a little picky when it comes to smoke.
EDIT: I also forgot to mention that I can drive the truck with almost no smoke if I BABY the truck. It does not smoke all the time like you see in the videos. I was trying to be spirited with descent acceleration.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fki7NsqdCdM&feature=em-upload_owner
Here is a speedo shot of me rolling into the throttle at 15mph and 2300rpms. It might not look like I floor it till 3000rpms but that is just because it lags and smokes so much from hitting the throttle too early.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6B4Prel8wOg&feature=em-upload_owner
Here is another speedo shot rolling into the throttle at 20mph and 2800rpms. Turbo lights pretty well from this speed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhIdL86dhns&feature=em-upload_owner
Just to be clear... I know lots of people that LOVE this turbo and setup. I have now been in both a 6.4 and 6.0 with this turbo and it is just not for me. Different strokes for different folks. I have been told if I switch to the 68mm turbine wheel, smaller a/r housing and add a 2200 stall converter that it should help the turbo to light faster. I might try the 68mm turbine wheel one day but EBP might get out of control. I already see 2:1 at WOT above 3500rpms so a smaller turbine wheel or turbine housing will only make that worse.
This has been my first time running a mechnical EBP sensor that can read above 40psi with a non-vgt turbo on a 6.0 so I have never had the chance to study ebp:boost ratio. The stock ebp sensor maxes out at 40psi of ebp (54 aboslute). I was a little surprised because most everyone is under the impression that non-vgt turbos always run 1:1. That is not true at all. They do run 1:1 down low (which is another reason they are laggy down low). But so far with the s364.5 once I get above 3000rpms you can kiss that 1:1 goodbye.
I was excited to get this turbo off and install the s362sxe. I should have some data/results over the next week or so.
This is a video just showing the tailpipe and tires while driving around town. I tried just about every combination of spirited "take-offs" to show different styles of driving. I know many are going to laugh and say "what smoke?" or "I wish I had more smoke". I personally like clean running setups and have grown to be very embarrassed when my truck rolls a little coal, especially in 6 lanes of traffic with lots of people around. I know I am a little picky when it comes to smoke.
EDIT: I also forgot to mention that I can drive the truck with almost no smoke if I BABY the truck. It does not smoke all the time like you see in the videos. I was trying to be spirited with descent acceleration.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fki7NsqdCdM&feature=em-upload_owner
Here is a speedo shot of me rolling into the throttle at 15mph and 2300rpms. It might not look like I floor it till 3000rpms but that is just because it lags and smokes so much from hitting the throttle too early.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6B4Prel8wOg&feature=em-upload_owner
Here is another speedo shot rolling into the throttle at 20mph and 2800rpms. Turbo lights pretty well from this speed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhIdL86dhns&feature=em-upload_owner
Just to be clear... I know lots of people that LOVE this turbo and setup. I have now been in both a 6.4 and 6.0 with this turbo and it is just not for me. Different strokes for different folks. I have been told if I switch to the 68mm turbine wheel, smaller a/r housing and add a 2200 stall converter that it should help the turbo to light faster. I might try the 68mm turbine wheel one day but EBP might get out of control. I already see 2:1 at WOT above 3500rpms so a smaller turbine wheel or turbine housing will only make that worse.
This has been my first time running a mechnical EBP sensor that can read above 40psi with a non-vgt turbo on a 6.0 so I have never had the chance to study ebp:boost ratio. The stock ebp sensor maxes out at 40psi of ebp (54 aboslute). I was a little surprised because most everyone is under the impression that non-vgt turbos always run 1:1. That is not true at all. They do run 1:1 down low (which is another reason they are laggy down low). But so far with the s364.5 once I get above 3000rpms you can kiss that 1:1 goodbye.
I was excited to get this turbo off and install the s362sxe. I should have some data/results over the next week or so.
sootie
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I think tuning tweaks would be your friend.
Thanks. Let me know if you have any tuning advice I am willing to try. I have tried a couple different options and revisions.
TSD, ********, and IDP, with and without FICM tuning. I also drove around in a tuned 6.4 with the same turbo and it seemed about the same. I have also talked to lots of other guys and shops with the same experience. When you get past the BS and hype from certain people always pushing a certain setup without any data to back it up... then my experience does not seem abnormal at all.
I always used to wonder why when everyone posts up their non-vgt spool up videos they always roll the throttle up to like 20-25mph before they punch it... now I know why.
Different strokes for different folks.
sootie
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You tried all those tuning options on this setup, specific to this setup?
Yes sir. At least on the SCT side. I am kind of a tune junky, I was planning on trying more tunes on the s364.5 but I got sick of it so fast so I was excited to get it off. I had plans to also test PHP, WPE, and possibly Wildman.
I just used the same FICM tunes. But as far as I know PHP FICM tuning does not change for the turbo setup. Just for the nozzle size.
Truck definitely pulls the hardest on hercules 100 and atlas 80 but becomes SUPER SMOKEY.
Truck runs the cleanest on the ECONO tune, but it becomes even more laggy and does not get rid of the smoke.
Atlas 40 seems to be the best happy medium
I had a few questions that were asked on another forum that I am gonna copy and paste here... Just in case anyone else had similar questions.
"Why are you testing a 64.5 vs a 68mm turbo? " "isn't the 64.5 doing more with less"
You make a good point and I guess it would have been a good idea to compare/explain the turbo sizes before testing... but they are actually very similar in size. A lot of guys only focus one "compressor" measurement. But that is just one piece to the puzzle. The turbine side is just as important, maybe even more. The wheel Trim also greatly changes the shape/performance of a turbine wheel.
Turbine wheels
74x70 vs 80x74 (that means the exducer of the s364.5 is bigger than the largest part of the stage 3 turbine wheel).
6mm bigger inducer
4mm bigger exducer
Comp wheels
68x94 vs 64.5x88
3.5mm bigger inducer
6mm bigger exducer
Even if you dropped down to the 68mm turbine wheel for the s364.5 it would still be a slightly larger turbine wheel because of the trim of the wheel... but simple math at least puts them closer on the turbine wheel side. I am sure at that point the s364.5 would lose at least a few HP and then put the stage 3 on top. That is all just theory... but I might buy a 68mm .91ar turbine housing and try it out.
74x70 vs 76x68
Although basically negligable the A/R housgins are .90 vs .91 so the s300 has a slightly bigger exhaust housing.
So they are actually both VERY close in size. One has a larger comp wheel and the other one has a larger turbine. I would definitely not say that the s364.5 is "doing more with less". I would say it makes 5hp extra on the top end with extra lag down low.
The closest comparison would probably be an s363 with 68 turbine vs stage 2.5 but I bought the s362 because it seems to be much more popular. So I guess the s362 vs Stage 2 will have to do for the smaller turbos.
Turbine wheel - s300 is bigger
72x66 vs 76x68
4mm bigger inducer
2mm bigger exducer
Comp wheel - stage 2 is bigger
64x88 vs 62x83
2mm bigger inducer
5mm bigger exducer
So my theoretical testing pattern was
S364.5 vs 68mm stage 3 turbo
s362 vs 64mm stage 2 turbo
My testing was not meant to say which turbo or turbo "type" was better. I just wanted good truthful data instead of the BS that gets regurgitated on the internet.
"Why are you testing a 64.5 vs a 68mm turbo? " "isn't the 64.5 doing more with less"
You make a good point and I guess it would have been a good idea to compare/explain the turbo sizes before testing... but they are actually very similar in size. A lot of guys only focus one "compressor" measurement. But that is just one piece to the puzzle. The turbine side is just as important, maybe even more. The wheel Trim also greatly changes the shape/performance of a turbine wheel.
Turbine wheels
74x70 vs 80x74 (that means the exducer of the s364.5 is bigger than the largest part of the stage 3 turbine wheel).
6mm bigger inducer
4mm bigger exducer
Comp wheels
68x94 vs 64.5x88
3.5mm bigger inducer
6mm bigger exducer
Even if you dropped down to the 68mm turbine wheel for the s364.5 it would still be a slightly larger turbine wheel because of the trim of the wheel... but simple math at least puts them closer on the turbine wheel side. I am sure at that point the s364.5 would lose at least a few HP and then put the stage 3 on top. That is all just theory... but I might buy a 68mm .91ar turbine housing and try it out.
74x70 vs 76x68
Although basically negligable the A/R housgins are .90 vs .91 so the s300 has a slightly bigger exhaust housing.
So they are actually both VERY close in size. One has a larger comp wheel and the other one has a larger turbine. I would definitely not say that the s364.5 is "doing more with less". I would say it makes 5hp extra on the top end with extra lag down low.
The closest comparison would probably be an s363 with 68 turbine vs stage 2.5 but I bought the s362 because it seems to be much more popular. So I guess the s362 vs Stage 2 will have to do for the smaller turbos.
Turbine wheel - s300 is bigger
72x66 vs 76x68
4mm bigger inducer
2mm bigger exducer
Comp wheel - stage 2 is bigger
64x88 vs 62x83
2mm bigger inducer
5mm bigger exducer
So my theoretical testing pattern was
S364.5 vs 68mm stage 3 turbo
s362 vs 64mm stage 2 turbo
My testing was not meant to say which turbo or turbo "type" was better. I just wanted good truthful data instead of the BS that gets regurgitated on the internet.
It has been really busy so it has taken me a while to get something written up on the s362sxe. It has been a joy to drive this turbo. Much more fun around town. I can easily manage the turbo and pull out in front of traffic and keep it clean on the bottom end... but now it is super dirty on the top end. I can see this turbo pairing really well with some 175/30 injectors.
Spool up is GREATLY improved over the s364.5sxe, but that was to be expected. Turbo seems to come on right about 1800-2200rpms. Turbo does not do very much between under 1800rpms but it is easy to roll into it and keep the truck running clean. Spools a little slower than my stage 2 turbo off the line. At lower rpms it struggles to make boost under 1700-1800rpms... but still does make some boost that low as opposed the the 364.5.
Power is a lot of fun for a daily driver. Below 1800rpms there is not much power to be had. The power is ok between 1800-2200rpms and then it kicks in hard. From 2200-2800rpms the power is incredible, rivals any other turbo I have ran so far. If I roll into it and punch it hard around 2200rpms the turbo easily zips up to 40-45psi of boost. After 2800rpms you can really feel the power fall off. You can literally watch the turbine housing choke out on the EBP gauge once you get above 2800rpms... At WOT in the upper rpms this turbo runs higher ebp:boost than any other turbo I have ran so far. Boost drops and EBP spikes, by 4000rpms I usually see around 25-30psi of boost and 70-75psi of EBP... that's almost 3:1
Peak power unloaded was 604hp, almost exactly the same as the stage 2. It makes peak hp at 2900rpms and then it falls off fast. By 3500rpms it is only making just above 500hp and by 4000rpms it is making just below 450hp. That's about 125 less hp between 4000-4100 rpms when compared to the s364.5 and it really shows out the exhaust pipe in the form of thick black smoke. If I was to make a race tune for this turbo I would have the shift points pretty low to keep the truck in the PEAK power range. Probably max of 3500rpms.
Here is a dyno graph comparing the s364.5 vs s362
Spool up is GREATLY improved over the s364.5sxe, but that was to be expected. Turbo seems to come on right about 1800-2200rpms. Turbo does not do very much between under 1800rpms but it is easy to roll into it and keep the truck running clean. Spools a little slower than my stage 2 turbo off the line. At lower rpms it struggles to make boost under 1700-1800rpms... but still does make some boost that low as opposed the the 364.5.
Power is a lot of fun for a daily driver. Below 1800rpms there is not much power to be had. The power is ok between 1800-2200rpms and then it kicks in hard. From 2200-2800rpms the power is incredible, rivals any other turbo I have ran so far. If I roll into it and punch it hard around 2200rpms the turbo easily zips up to 40-45psi of boost. After 2800rpms you can really feel the power fall off. You can literally watch the turbine housing choke out on the EBP gauge once you get above 2800rpms... At WOT in the upper rpms this turbo runs higher ebp:boost than any other turbo I have ran so far. Boost drops and EBP spikes, by 4000rpms I usually see around 25-30psi of boost and 70-75psi of EBP... that's almost 3:1
Peak power unloaded was 604hp, almost exactly the same as the stage 2. It makes peak hp at 2900rpms and then it falls off fast. By 3500rpms it is only making just above 500hp and by 4000rpms it is making just below 450hp. That's about 125 less hp between 4000-4100 rpms when compared to the s364.5 and it really shows out the exhaust pipe in the form of thick black smoke. If I was to make a race tune for this turbo I would have the shift points pretty low to keep the truck in the PEAK power range. Probably max of 3500rpms.
Here is a dyno graph comparing the s364.5 vs s362
Well it has been a few months since I updated this thread.
I finally switched back to VGT... BOY DID I MISS IT. When I heard the whistle and actually started building boost under 1500rpms it literally brought a smile to my face... but that was short lived because I ended up blowing my TQ converter the first day I had the vgt in my truck. I ended up sending the tranny off to get upgraded to comp plus tranny and a quad disk DPC converter. Andy Warren was great to deal with and got the transmission turned around QUICK!
I was running a stage 2.5 when I got the new tranny installed and finally hit the dyno up last night. Stage 2.5 did about 611hp (6hp more than the stage 2 and 19hp less than the stage 3). It was fun to drive. The whistle was CRAZY loud. Louder than the stage 2 for some reason. I was SUPER excited to get that turbo off the truck so I only ran it for 1 week.
Dual Ball Bearing VGT turbo is installed. All I can say for right now is WOW!!! This could be a game changer for the 6.0 powerstroke world. Data is coming.
For right now it is just a "stage 2 VGT duall ball bearing turbo". But I have a few tweaks I plan on making.
I finally switched back to VGT... BOY DID I MISS IT. When I heard the whistle and actually started building boost under 1500rpms it literally brought a smile to my face... but that was short lived because I ended up blowing my TQ converter the first day I had the vgt in my truck. I ended up sending the tranny off to get upgraded to comp plus tranny and a quad disk DPC converter. Andy Warren was great to deal with and got the transmission turned around QUICK!
I was running a stage 2.5 when I got the new tranny installed and finally hit the dyno up last night. Stage 2.5 did about 611hp (6hp more than the stage 2 and 19hp less than the stage 3). It was fun to drive. The whistle was CRAZY loud. Louder than the stage 2 for some reason. I was SUPER excited to get that turbo off the truck so I only ran it for 1 week.
Dual Ball Bearing VGT turbo is installed. All I can say for right now is WOW!!! This could be a game changer for the 6.0 powerstroke world. Data is coming.
For right now it is just a "stage 2 VGT duall ball bearing turbo". But I have a few tweaks I plan on making.
Last edited:
shmoozer
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Interesting...definitely excited to see what comes of this.
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np205
Member
:rockon:
Kedstrokin
Member
I was thinking about getting a turbo soon but guess I'll wait for now.
jeremiahmercier
Member
Interested in this new turbo too, ball bearing and VGT, is it as whiney as the 38r though?
06-6.0l, CCLB 4X4, studded, reworked heads, egr gone, cab reroute, blue spring mod, 6.4 banjos, updated dummy plugs, stand pipe, and stc fitting; New oil cooler, New ipr, New icp, atlas 40 FICM, powermax turbo, and Geerhead tunes, 325/65R18
06-6.0l, CCLB 4X4, studded, reworked heads, egr gone, cab reroute, blue spring mod, 6.4 banjos, updated dummy plugs, stand pipe, and stc fitting; New oil cooler, New ipr, New icp, atlas 40 FICM, powermax turbo, and Geerhead tunes, 325/65R18
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