On my way to 500HP!

[Lowdown89]

Wow, the oil pump has stirred up quite the convo lol

 

[strokin6L]

good ole' trusted LOL

lol at least my good 'ol trusted 64/71/70 charger is still holding strong.

 

[Lubbockguy1979]

So your not going to put the high out put pump on the truck. Which is the adrenaline. And instead your using a billet stock replacement that slightly upt performs stock.

 

[strokin6L]

The question is, was anyone actually measuring the ICP at both the rails and the pump to see if there was any actual pressure drop in the system?

When talking with Bob about this subject today, he indicated that when he had done initial testing on the system on an otherwise stock(ish) truck, the HPO rails would show a reasonable pressure but the HPOP would be hundreds of PSI higher.

Again, it comes down to a very simple test. Two ICP sensors... One at the HPOP and one in the head. If the delivery system is not a concern, then there should be pretty close to ZERO pressure difference between sensors. Being able to test under different conditions such as varying loads and power levels will help to shed light on just where any deficiencies are. All it takes is time, and a $135 sensor. Well worth the investment to put this issue to bed.


On Edit:

Just got off the phone with Bob and he confirmed that Tim DID have the HPODS system installed on Deranged at the same time he installed his Adrenaline HPOP. In fact, when they first started the truck and realized (much too late) that the had an oil filter problem on the truck which caused him to have to tear down the engine, he had the HPODS and Adrenaline installed because he had to send it all back to be to be rebuilt to remover the filter debris.

Sorry bud...i stand corrected then. Never heard Tim mentioning that he also had the HPODS on it...only heard him mentioning the adrenaline pump. Thanks for the correction.

But on a side note....I have an early '04(basicly an '03), and Bob does offer a billet high output adrenaline for the '03-'04 models, but no HPODS. Now he said that the HPODS needs/should be used with the adrenaline pump. So why sell a billet adrenaline pump for the '03-'04 trucks if you don't have a HPODS for it that he recommends? I know the '03-04 trucks don't have the ports/plugs in the rails like the 2004/5-2007 trucks do for the HPODS to work on the early model 6L's, but still....why offer a billet HPOP and not the HPODS for it if it's recommended? Just doesn't make sense. I wouldn't mind putting a HPODS on my truck if it's really gonna make a difference, but Bob doesn't have one for '03-'04's. So i guess there really isn't any reason to even bother installing a billet adrenaline HPOP either the way it looks.

 

[windrunner408]

Well, at 285K miles, I'd say it's a strong possibility. :shrug:

Yea it definitely is. I am sorry for the vague question. I was more referring to what it was exactly you were looking to prove/solve with basically a stock pump?? Nevertheless, if you have to replace it, you might as well do it right and Bob's pump is the best way to do it IMO.

I'm excited to see your results for sure.

 

[Mwilbur516]

Do the 05-07 HPOP's put out more flow and pressure than the 03-04 pumps?

 

[Keanoknick]

lol at least my good 'ol trusted 64/71/70 charger is still holding strong.

My Trusted 195's and stage 2 fuel system are working perfect. I couldn't be happier with them. Looking forward to a Trusted charger soon.

 

[Power Hungry]

Sorry bud...i stand corrected then. Never heard Tim mentioning that he also had the HPODS on it...only heard him mentioning the adrenaline pump. Thanks for the correction.

No worries. It was an honest mistake. I definitely wasn't trying to call anyone out. :thumbsup: I had remembered talking to Tim at the TS Drags a few years back about the mishap with the engine because of the filter and I thought I had remembered seeing the HPODS installed at that time.

But on a side note....I have an early '04(basicly an '03), and Bob does offer a billet high output adrenaline for the '03-'04 models, but no HPODS. Now he said that the HPODS needs/should be used with the adrenaline pump. So why sell a billet adrenaline pump for the '03-'04 trucks if you don't have a HPODS for it that he recommends? I know the '03-04 trucks don't have the ports/plugs in the rails like the 2004/5-2007 trucks do for the HPODS to work on the early model 6L's, but still....why offer a billet HPOP and not the HPODS for it if it's recommended? Just doesn't make sense. I wouldn't mind putting a HPODS on my truck if it's really gonna make a difference, but Bob doesn't have one for '03-'04's. So i guess there really isn't any reason to even bother installing a billet adrenaline HPOP either the way it looks.

I guess the million dollar question is: Can you retrofit the '04.5+ oil rails onto the '03-'04 heads and then change the Valve Covers? Either that, or machine a billet oil rail to match the configuration and porting of the '04.5+ rails, again changing the Valve Covers? Would be an interesting proposition.

Now, I agree that without the HPODS there probably is not a HUGE advantage to stepping the pump up on the early engines. I really don't know. That's a question better left to someone like Bob to answer. It may just be that the delivery system on the '03-'04 is more efficient than the later models, allowing the HPOP to work more effectively. Or, maybe it's just that the billet pump is a better overall unit to begin with. In reading the DieselSite page on the billet pump, they indicate several improvements over the factory pump and maybe that's more than enough to make it worthwhile. :shrug:

Fortunately, I have an '04.5, so I won't run into these issues. Rest assured though, I will be testing the pressures at the pump and at the head and we're going to see (at least on the '04.5+) just how much of a loss there really is. I've got the sensor and pigtails on order and can monitor the second ICP sensor on my CTS in tandem with the factory one so we can get a live, side by side comparison of the ICP voltages. This will clear the whole thing up pretty quick.

Yea it definitely is. I am sorry for the vague question. I was more referring to what it was exactly you were looking to prove/solve with basically a stock pump?? Nevertheless, if you have to replace it, you might as well do it right and Bob's pump is the best way to do it IMO.

I'm excited to see your results for sure.

Not really trying to prove/solve anything. It's really more of a "I wonder what this will do?" type of situation. There is obviously much more going on with the HPO system than meets the eye and I intend to get to the bottom of it and find out, once-and-for-all, exactly what's what. Since we have the ability to not only monitor multiple sensors, but to also high-speed datalog, we can see just how much proximity to the pump affects the sensor or even if changing the sensor location makes any difference in the overall performance of the vehicle (as some have indicated it does). Lots of options to try and test. I'm already making a checklist of test procedures and conditions so that I can make sure not to leave any combination out. Unfortunately, I don't have the cabbage to spring on an HPODS just yet, but definitely have it on the list of goodies for the truck

In any event, the next couple weeks are going to be interesting!

 

[windrunner408]

Got ya. Sounds good and cant wait to hear/read about what you find. :thumbsup:

 

[Redneck6.0L]

Now if you say the factory delivery system can not flow what the pump puts out. Can you please post the supporting data to prove that. Put a pressure gauge at the pump and a gauge at the end of the oil rail and see what the pressure drop is. If you have the same pressure at both gauges then the factory oil delivery system works fine. If you have 4000psi at the pump and 2500 at the end of the oil rail then I'll believe the oil delivery system isn't big enough. Until you show and prove that data. The riley fancy delivery system is nothing more than internet hype

 

[windrunner408]

Not trying to talk for Bill but IIRC I remember him mentioning doing that in his test. He fully intends to put a guage on the pump and another one at the end on the rail and see what is what exactly because you are completely right.

 

[Mwilbur516]

Not trying to talk for Bill but IIRC I remember him mentioning doing that in his test. He fully intends to put a guage on the pump and another one at the end on the rail and see what is what exactly because you are completely right.

What he said.

 

[Redneck6.0L]

I remember him saying it was goin to provide thhat info but no one has seen it yet.

 

[ToMang07]

I remember him saying it was goin to provide thhat info but no one has seen it yet.

This thread is only a week old...are you really THAT desperate to troll?

 

[Lubbockguy1979]

Seems shawn does it then talks about it or talks about it the does it the same day. Some of us have other things on the agenda before finishing or updating a project

 

[Redneck6.0L]

Never mind then. Just trying to save people some money.



Carry on

 

[windrunner408]

I get ya Shawn. I think Bill just has his build going on in stages and he wanted to start a thread, that folks could follow, to let them know what he had planned and what to look forward to hearing results on.

I'm with you on that folks get on here claiming this and claiming that and giving no proof but I dont think Bill has done that. He simply put out his hopes for his project. I am sure a tactic like that is used for gaining interest but I also know his thread on the FICM results gained just as much interest. Maybe he should have done that here as well. IDK. :shrug: Either way I dont think anything wrong has been done here unlike other threads/vendors that we won't mention.

 

[UpstateDieselGuy]

I have been following the 6.0 since its launch and have watched what Shawn has done to bring attention to the 6.0 and continues to do and find it funny seeing people ragging on him. I don't have one dog in the fight, but can't take all of the blind bashing without any data. I think more people need to be open minded as well as a little cautious with every new concept/product.

Chris

 

[Extended Power]

Why are so many people so baffled as to if you can run a newer HPO system on an old engine?
Mine started out as an '03 HPO system, then changed to the newer wavey oil rails with an early style Adrenaline HPOP from Bob, then a complete new HPO system...pump included...all on a 2003 engine....it's PFM I tell ya...lol

And why the hell would you get an aftermarket pump....let alone a BILLET housed HPOP if it is just slightly better then the stock pumps performance?

Come on...go for the gusto!

 

[Power Hungry]

There is obviously much more going on with the HPO system than meets the eye and I intend to get to the bottom of it and find out, once-and-for-all, exactly what's what. Since we have the ability to not only monitor multiple sensors, but to also high-speed datalog, we can see just how much proximity to the pump affects the sensor or even if changing the sensor location makes any difference in the overall performance of the vehicle (as some have indicated it does). Lots of options to try and test. I'm already making a checklist of test procedures and conditions so that I can make sure not to leave any combination out. Unfortunately, I don't have the cabbage to spring on an HPODS just yet, but definitely have it on the list of goodies for the truck

In any event, the next couple weeks are going to be interesting!

Now if you say the factory delivery system can not flow what the pump puts out. Can you please post the supporting data to prove that. Put a pressure gauge at the pump and a gauge at the end of the oil rail and see what the pressure drop is. If you have the same pressure at both gauges then the factory oil delivery system works fine. If you have 4000psi at the pump and 2500 at the end of the oil rail then I'll believe the oil delivery system isn't big enough. Until you show and prove that data. The riley fancy delivery system is nothing more than internet hype

Not trying to talk for Bill but IIRC I remember him mentioning doing that in his test. He fully intends to put a guage on the pump and another one at the end on the rail and see what is what exactly because you are completely right.

I remember him saying it was goin to provide that info but no one has seen it yet.

First of all, I never really said anything either positive or negative about the HPODS system, but merely relayed the information as it was presented to me and expressed my intentions to fully test before and after results. On the surface, the HPODS seems like a logical solution to a possible HPO supply issue, but I will be conducting our testing with the degree of skepticism that the situation warrants.

It's been 4 days since I last mentioned our plan to test the stock system as well as any possible improvements with the HPODS. My pressure sensors and EAS harnesses haven't even showed up from Edge yet. Also, my injectors haven't even shown up yet. The simple fact is that this is a project that I will be handling as I have the time to. It's NOT something that I am going to just drop everything I am doing and spend (conservatively) $1800.00 in hardware and test equipment along with 20-30 hours of installation and testing just to satisfy everyone else's curiosity. Don't get me wrong... I am certainly more than happy to share whatever results we obtain, but I have a business to run, a family to attend to, and I had already said that I was expecting to spend a couple WEEKS to get the testing completed. I am doing this at MY pace and what MY budget will allow to satisfy MY need to know.

I must say that very few things actually irritate me and anyone who knows me will tell you that I'm about as laid back as a dead fly. However, a couple of things that really bug the hell out of me are pushy people and ungrateful people. So... (and I really don't mean to be a smart-ass about this)... if you are that interested in immediate results, then by all means test it yourself. Otherwise, hang tight and we'll be posting the results as soon as we get them. :thumbsup: :clapping: :rockon:

(I mean this in the humorous spirit in which it is intended... :evil )​

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYIuJBWpxAI