Possible cracked block?

Lt.Dan · Nov 15, 2016

Well, i gave him a call this morning, and he has it all put together except the heads arent on it yet. Saturday night they were installing the valve stem seals, and noticed something amiss with a few valves. He says he guesses the machine shop overlooked checking the valves and just did the magnaflux and resurface. So he sent the heads back to the machine shop to have a full valve job done. Says they should have them back by the end of the week... Neverending.

Is my flux capacitor going to loose its charge next? What the hell else could be wrong.

Then at about 5pm he sent me this picture:

Lol, you can see the adapter plate on their engine stand is totally warping from the weight of the motor on it.

Lt.Dan · Nov 23, 2016

Well, i got a phone call from the shop today. And im at a loss for words.

I dont know a whole lot about this job, so ill try and repeat it the best i can. Basically he called me and said theres a slight problem, not a big one, but a problem. The machine shop said they recommend all valves be replaced, along with guides, and needs 2 valve seats. Thats not the problem though, the problem being that after measuring some stuff, they came to the conclusion that because of machining etc, there will now be valve to piston contact. So they said they either need to source .030" shorter push rods, or shim the rockers somehow. Now again, i dont know too much about this stuff, but how the HELL did the push rods all of a sudden need to be .030" shorter??? They didnt take .030" of material off the heads or the block???

They said to do the valve job on these, it would be $900 for parts and labor (mostly parts he said). Then they have to figure out the pushrod/rocker arm thing.

Or $1500 for re-manufactured heads.

What are my options here guys? I obviously want the job done right the first time, so shimming the rocker arms sounds kinda sketchy to me.

Debating on calling them and saying im already in this job $3k more than i wanted to be originally, and im just going to hold off and come pick up my stuff as it sits...

bluedge8 · Nov 23, 2016

I would ask them how the push rods are off. I would say it's from machining the heads/block. you may get some of that back with different heads. I hate this for you but that is why some of us suggested a used engine but I know it's too late now. Good luck.

79jasper · Nov 23, 2016

The machine shop should be able to answer how much they took off each side.

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superpsd · Nov 23, 2016

It Sounds like you are paying a shop that has not a clue what they are truly doing. They want you to pay top dollar for a rebuild that is likely way out of spec and try and compensate by shorter push rods that will limit valve lift.

One last time and not that my advice matters. I would pull the plug. Tell them to had over the rebuilt shortblock and find a good used tested guaranteed engine from a yard etc and get the truck on the road. Then store the short block and finish it as funds allow and or sell it and cut your losses. If they ****ed up valve to piston clearance this far along the main question is what else did they do half assed and do you want to spend the time putting the engine back in the truck to find out you got hosed.

Lt.Dan · Nov 23, 2016

bluedge8 said:
I would ask them how the push rods are off. I would say it's from machining the heads/block. you may get some of that back with different heads. I hate this for you but that is why some of us suggested a used engine but I know it's too late now. Good luck.

If i new then, what i know now... lol.

79jasper said:
The machine shop should be able to answer how much they took off each side.

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I remember they said on the heads it was very little, no more than .005" if i remember correctly.

superpsd said:
Sounds like you are paying a shop that has not a clue what they are truly doing. They want you to pay top dollar for a rebuild that is likely way out of spec and try and compensate by shorter push rods that will limit valve lift.

Im starting to think the same thing, makes me wonder why theyre so busy!

So from the sounds of it, to have less of a chance of something going wrong in the future, and without loosing too much valve lift, i might as well go with the new heads... Sucks as ive already put money into these heads getting them magnafluxed, cleaned, and surfaces machined...

79jasper · Nov 23, 2016

So... why not just finish it yourself?
Ain't that hard.

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Lt.Dan · Nov 23, 2016

I totally want to, but i have no time myself, Im right in the middle of my "season" at work, and for the next few months ill be working 60-70 hours a week... Getting the motor in the truck is going to be hard enough as it is.

I am also thinking about taking it elsewhere to get it finished.

79jasper · Nov 23, 2016

At a minimum....

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TyCorr · Nov 24, 2016

I would have handled something like this at the shop i was helping out at. 95% chance we'd be asking for approval of funds to tear it down, if not rebuild it, sight unseen. 7.3s arent hard to rebuild but theres a bit of attention to detail that needs to be paid.

I would tell you to get comfortable with taking measurements and check a few critical things and then toss new ford heads on it, but it sounds like you're too busy.

Best of luck. This is a fairly common spot to be stuck in it seems with machine shops.

Lt.Dan · Nov 25, 2016

Well, i would love to learn, maybe im thinking its a harder job than it is. Is there any books i can get or a website to help out? Maybe i can get it done on my own..?

79jasper · Nov 25, 2016

I think the ford service manual would give you all the specifications.

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Lt.Dan · Nov 26, 2016

Looking it over the little bit, i think its a little out of my league. It might have all the specifications, but i have no idea how to check them. With what tools, or machinery. I would need to learn first hand from someone who does know, for me to feel safe about doing it myself. I've texted the guy who has my motor and told him im going to total up what i owe him, and that im coming to pick it up.

I'm planning on taking it to a guy in Orange County that a friend of mine recommended, he specializes in 7.3's and 6.0's. Going to take it to him, and have him look it over to get another diagnostic on the heads, as well as everything else that has been done, and go from there.

bluedge8 · Nov 26, 2016

I would not recommend doing machining measurements unless you know what you are doing.

morefuel · Nov 26, 2016

Maybe a stupid idea but why not just have the pistons machined. Shouldn't cost that much. But do still need to figure out what's going on first.

Lt.Dan · Nov 27, 2016

I have the lathe that could machine the pistons down here at my shop, would this be a smart idea to take .030" off of them? Or would that interfere with where the rings seat on the sides?

bluedge8 · Nov 27, 2016

I think it would affect heat and the postings could melt easier

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97f350stroker · Nov 27, 2016

I would want to know what exactly they had to do on a valve job that now requires .030 shorter pushrods. Did they resurface the head again? Thats a good bit of material that just disappeared. I'm not an engine builder but I would think if the piston protrusion on the deck checks out ok then they ***ked up your heads. You could source out a good set of used heads and go through the machine process again but obviously use a different shop lol

TyCorr · Nov 27, 2016

I sure hope thats needed on the heads and not because the piston protrusion in relation to the deck is that far off. In that case, the block is a boat anchor.

Do NOT use shorter pushrods.

Lt.Dan · Nov 27, 2016

bluedge8 said:
I think it would affect heat and the postings could melt easier

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Aluminum is aluminum, they dont heat treat alumiunm pistons, so machining would only take away .030" of material, which yes, less material means less dissipation of heat, but hell .030" over a 5" tall piston? I doubt it would matter.

97f350stroker said:
I would want to know what exactly they had to do on a valve job that now requires .030 shorter pushrods. Did they resurface the head again? Thats a good bit of material that just disappeared. I'm not an engine builder but I would think if the piston protrusion on the deck checks out ok then they ***ked up your heads. You could source out a good set of used heads and go through the machine process again but obviously use a different shop lol

After doing some reading, im starting to think they didnt take .030" of material off the block and heads, maybe they only took .010" overall, but there has to be a tolerance, a good distance in between the piston and valve. And to get that tolerance correct, maybe they need to be .030"? But again, i have no idea what im talking about, just my theory. I am going to ask them exactly what happened when i pick up everything.

My question is, how do they know its .030"? As far as i can tell, the only way to measure P2V distance is with the heads on the block. And the machine shop ONLY has the heads. So how do i know they arent trying to blow smoke up my ass? How do i know they are even measuring it correctly, and maybe its within safe spec? Thats what the next shop will find out.

TyCorr said:
I sure hope thats needed on the heads and not because the piston protrusion in relation to the deck is that far off. In that case, the block is a boat anchor.

Do NOT use shorter pushrods.

If the pistons protrude that far out, would it cause any problems? What would be so bad about them protruding a little further? Assuming the entire piston doesn't contact the head?

And also, why not use shorter pushrods? Not questioning you, just curious as to why.