Tuning 101 - Thread Merged with Injector Posts

[Hotrodtractor]

I know Matt liked the 80% edm nozzles because they are cleaner than the 100% that are extrude honed. I'm assuming the more honing, the harder it is to keep the tolerances of the nozzle holes close.

Disclaimer: I'm not totally familiar with the extrude honing process. I'm sure not all methods are created equal.

The 80% tips and 100% tips are manufactured using the same size starting hole - the 80% receive a little bit of EH to clean them up, the 100% tips just keep flowing EH material until they reach 100%. I'm sure if the 100% tips started with a larger hole and just had minor clean up work to them like the 80% tips then Matt's complaint would vanish.

 

[Hotrodtractor]

Do those tips exist? Or is it one off custom stuff?

Without going into details - its a bit of both.

 

[Charles]

Yeah all methods and equipment for the methods are not created equal. All of our nozzles are EDM then finished off by extrude hone and balanced. The extrude hone at the end basically smooths out the finish after the EDM and cleans them up. I would say most peoples are done the same way. However I have seen stock nozzles extrude honed to XXX over stock and if you do not have good equipment with someone who knows how to run it the product will not be good.

In my experience keep the EH out of it if you can. A clean hole is the opposite of what you want. The smoother and nicer the hole, the farther you are from the goal, which is to bust the fuel to pieces. A nice clean hole will result in more laminar flow and larger droplets.

This is one reason I think the 200 works so well. Unless something has changed, I don't think they are very "clean" compared to say a 100 EH.

You want a nasty hole with burrs and slag all over it believe it or not.

Under a microscope of course.

This is just me talking.

 

[Charles]

There are those of us that have discussed going to a larger diameter tip for quite a while for this exact reason.

Of course you know the answer....

5 holer.

How about a nice 5 x 35




Let your intensifier piston try to chase that plunger, lol.

 

[04stroker]

In my experience keep the EH out of it if you can. A clean hole is the opposite of what you want. The smoother and nicer the hole, the farther you are from the goal, which is to bust the fuel to pieces. A nice clean hole will result in more laminar flow and larger droplets.

This is one reason I think the 200 works so well. Unless something has changed, I don't think they are very "clean" compared to say a 100 EH.

You want a nasty hole with burrs and slag all over it believe it or not.

Under a microscope of course.

This is just me talking.

Maybe "clean" was the wrong word cannot think of a better word to describe what I was trying to say. Most nozzles do have a EH finish them up to de burr them. I get what you are saying but at the same time you do not want burrs that could potentially cause a nozzle failure or a leaky pintle. I agree though that EDM as much as you can and do as little EH as possible. But everyone I have talked too that manufactures nozzles all run them through a EH to deburr and balance them after it is EDM'd to their desired size.

 

[cjfarm111]

Well let's do a 125-150% edm nozzle the fellas!

 

[Charles]

Maybe "clean" was the wrong word cannot think of a better word to describe what I was trying to say. Most nozzles do have a EH finish them up to de burr them. I get what you are saying but at the same time you do not want burrs that could potentially cause a nozzle failure or a leaky pintle. I agree though that EDM as much as you can and do as little EH as possible. But everyone I have talked too that manufactures nozzles all run them through a EH to deburr and balance them after it is EDM'd to their desired size.

I think EH actually unbalances the nozzle holes while balancing the sum of the holes. That's another reason to keep the EH out of it as much as possible. If one nozzle hole flows more than another, EH will take almost nothing out of the one that was small and open up the one that was larger even more, because it flows more media!

If everything is pretty much even to begin, and you don't go crazy, everything will stay pretty decent. If everything is all over the place to begin with, EH will drive it in the wrong direction. If you EH a lot on something like that the smaller holes will be nasty and small while the larger holes will be insanely large and spotless.

I think this defines how far they are will to take something. They know about where things are probably going to get dumb in terms of the media taking the past of least resistance straight to hell.

 

[04stroker]

I think EH actually unbalances the nozzle holes while balancing the sum of the holes. That's another reason to keep the EH out of it as much as possible. If one nozzle hole flows more than another, EH will take almost nothing out of the one that was small and open up the one that was larger even more, because it flows more media!

If everything is pretty much even to begin, and you don't go crazy, everything will stay pretty decent. If everything is all over the place to begin with, EH will drive it in the wrong direction. If you EH a lot on something like that the smaller holes will be nasty and small while the larger holes will be insanely large and spotless.

I think this defines how far they are will to take something. They know about where things are probably going to get dumb in terms of the media taking the past of least resistance straight to hell.

Yes again I agree. That is the big reason I said awhile ago that the equipment and people running it is so important from the start. If you get a crappy EDM job the EH is not going to fix it and most likely make it worse. So it is very important that the EDM job is done well on a good piece of equipment then any EH work that may be needed would be very very minimal. Do not get me wrong I agree I would leave as little to EH as possible but I was just explaining the process that was explained to me from various nozzle manufacturing companys.

 

[OBS-Addiction97]

There are those of us that have discussed going to a larger diameter tip for quite a while for this exact reason.

I've had two of my 200% nozzles break so far.. Can't figure out why. Fuel is clean and fuel pressure is rock solid.

 

[Charles]

I've had two of my 200% nozzles break so far.. Can't figure out why. Fuel is clean and fuel pressure is rock solid.

Anything will break. The fact that you've had it happen twice with an otherwise low failure rate nozzle means the chances of something having happened on that truck to cause it go up substantially.

 

[Vader's Fury]

Or he got a bad batch of nozzles.

Same injector?

 

[TyCorr]

I can say with no hesitation Id run a 200% nozzle over a 100 anyday. 100s were my least favorite experience. Tuning plays a part but they seem like a compromise for some purpose. I couldnt tell you what purpose though. 80% nozzles were fine but tuned how I like things tuned it was happy around 410 hp. I cant imagine running 500hp through an 80% nozzle. Hot, smoky garbage.

The 200 has been easy for me. I had some icp adjustment done but Bill nailed my tunes on attempt number uno other than the truck was making 3700psi of icp in the hot tune. Its limited to 3200 now and if I had trans enough still id get a video. That and there arent any seats,carpet, or interior in it. LOL

Once I get better at dmax tuning ill start tuning my 7.3. Im ready.

 

[lincolnlocker]

i need to start tuning my 7.3s.. nobody in my neck of the woods does it.. not that im there often but still..

live life full throttle

 

[Jomax]

i need to start tuning my 7.3s.. nobody in my neck of the woods does it.. not that im there often but still..

live life full throttle

I'm actually thinking of dropping the F5 and going with a hydra. I'd like to tune myself. I think it would fun.


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[TyCorr]

I'm actually thinking of dropping the F5 and going with a hydra. I'd like to tune myself. I think it would fun.


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I just think it'd be easier. I hear people say "bills tunes dont make the power of _____". Ive ran other tuning. Only thing I want to try I haven't is gearhedd. Its been a common idea that Bills tuning was weaker. I disagree. His tunes make things run right. All the power bragging rights in the world wouldnt mean crap to me if the truck was horrible to drive. There are a few spots Id try to improve upon the transmission tuning. But it might be as far as it gonna go already. It may take a pcs to get the more im seeking.

And yea, fun too

 

[JD3020]

^I have a trans controller for my OBS build because of that. I've gotten my trans tuning pretty close, but it'll never be perfect trying to go through the PCM.

 

[TyCorr]

I kinda figured. I had some adjustments done and its good for me 75% of the time.

 

[TyCorr]

Charlie, gonna put some idle videos up? Lets get this tuning bs rollin.

 

[Charles]

Charlie, gonna put some idle videos up? Lets get this tuning bs rollin.

It just sounds like a truck idling, lol.

If I hadn't crashed my Gopro when my quad lost a motor I would get some video blasting down the road with no smoke.


On Edit:

Here, I found this from 6 years ago. I think this was 300/300's.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZxE7XMxR7Q


A video response to talks that I had blown my engine. Again, probably 300/300's.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUVhGtIvido

 

[TyCorr]

I was hoping for haze or lack thereof...

I can't really help there...its cool enough here it'll fog out the yard on a cold start.

And yea it idles quite well