Tuning 101 - Thread Merged with Injector Posts

[ja_cain]

Too bad you can't just run the HEUI system like a common rail by keeping the ICP high and then just manipulating the pw. I assume this would be hard on the oil, pump and injectors by running it this way. It would probably be easier to tun though.

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[V-Ref]

Too bad you can't just run the HEUI system like a common rail by keeping the ICP high and then just manipulating the pw. I assume this would be hard on the oil, pump and injectors by running it this way. It would probably be easier to tun though.

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Fuel Rail pressure fluctates quite a bit in all the Common Rail tuning I've monitored (5.9 & 6.4)

 

[ja_cain]

That's good to know that there is another knob used to adjust fuel delivery. So they are not as different as I thought.

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[Tim @ P.I.S.]

I wanna say those where 250/200s

live life full throttle

230/100

Lets not start the dyno battle again.

His dyno does what he wants.

Baseline, mod then live tune and show "X" gain.

 

[lincolnlocker]

230/100

Lets not start the dyno battle again.

His dyno does what he wants.

Baseline, mod then live tune and show "X" gain.

No battle here man! I just thought that was what they where.






live life full throttle

 

[V-Ref]

I think this thread has got him feeling defensive without cause....Most of the folks in this thread are 7.3 diehards just wanting to learn. Those are great #s!

 

[ja_cain]

....Most of the folks in this thread are 7.3 diehards just wanting to learn.

Whs


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[purplepstroke]

I believe dyno proven did damn near 600hp with Tim's 238/100s with a 38r turbo.

Yeah I had a 38r with 230/100s from Tim. Jonathan from Dynoproven live tuned it. Made 573 and still had a lot of smoke left too burn. Idm would of maybe got me close.

 

[Charles]

I did 644rwhp uncorrected 248c at 2.0ms on the scope. Peak was at 3400rpm.

300/300 Heui.

Injectors drove awesome. Pulled 633 uncorrected on Dunbars with slightly less timing.

The day before I ran on Dunbars, I pulled 18 round bales for around 3 hours in the exact same program with no smoke, egt or drivability issues. Driving home from that event I dropped a late model corvette from ~50 to ~110 where he lifted.

Life starts at a 200 EDM.

 

[PTSUPERD]

I did 644rwhp uncorrected 248c at 2.0ms on the scope. Peak was at 3400rpm.

300/300 Heui.

Injectors drove awesome. Pulled 633 uncorrected on Dunbars with slightly less timing.

The day before I ran on Dunbars, I pulled 18 round bales for around 3 hours in the exact same program with no smoke, egt or drivability issues. Driving home from that event I dropped a late model corvette from ~50 to ~110 where he lifted.

Life starts at a 200 EDM.

Glad to see you back Chuckie.

 

[lincolnlocker]

Glad to see you back Chuckie.

Agreed.

live life full throttle

 

[Charles]

I have an 02 crew cab now and wanted to update this thread since this truck is damn near stock and needed a set of injectors to replace the tired set that came in it when I bought it.

This truck is simply my Daily driver that took over for my red truck when I needed two more doors to house a couple car seats in the back that my regular cab could not support. The injectors that came in this truck would not start on a cold day, just flat worn out injectors.

So....

When I replaced them who thinks I went with an AD or something with a tiny little nozze?

I took my old 300's and put a 200 EDM on them. The truck had some crap intake and a 4" downpipe, otherwise it was 100% stock. Since I had a 38R handy I threw it on when I did the injectors. The 38R has the 1.15 non-gated housing.

The truck is super zippy. I forgot how easy it is for a stock compression truck to zip around. I've pushed into the stock trans as far as I can basically. No 30% truck on planet earth would touch it. The 30% truck would be rolling massive coal and losing ground while this truck was leaving out perfectly clean.

I have no gauges, don't need any. I have no fuel pump changes, no oil system changes, nothing. The air filter is as it came, full of dirt, bugs and pinestraw needles. Doesn't matter.

If I had a stock charger I would simply lower the pw a bit to keep it under 25lbs on the top end.

When it comes to tuning it was dead on. I messed around with the auto pcm at first until I realized the surging was because it was not connected to the trans anymore. When I switched to the AEB man trans pcm I sh*t you not, the FIRST program I wrote, and bare in mind this is from DEAD SCRATCH because I did not even have a single file for that cache code, so this includes shaping all the scalers and working through all the parameters from SCRATCH..... regardless, it went down the road GREAT! ZERO, I mean ZEEEEEERO smoke. Flat to the floor 1500rpm kind of zero smoke. And it was WAAAAAAAY too strong. It's not like it was a limp noodle program, this thing was trying to break the trans like right now. On wet roads I had no traction at any speed up to around 100 or so where I gave up. That's on a 35" nitto. So it was making power, too much. But ZERO smoke.

It's not rocket science. I maxed the pw at ~2.2, ran 3000 psi oil and had a nice MFD table that was smooth and linear. I have since dropped the max pw to around 2 IIRC so I don't break the trans. I also added in the little bs like killing the overboost and stuff so you don't need to trick the MAP sensor.

Anyway, point being, I never even sat in the truck and wrote a file that went down the street like a boss right out of the gate.

Anybody that has problems with a 200 do me a favor and check your pulsewidth. Driving around at part throttle in OD lets say, and lugging down, you need to be like 1.x, like 1.2, 1.4 or so.

I don't know what's happening for you all that seem to struggle with a larger nozzle, but pw is all I can think of for you to check, because I can't MAKE a 200 not work!!!

Best....... nozzle....... ever......



On Edit:

Truck seriously just has an intake, exhaust, 38R and 300/200's. Trans has a PCS simply because the Ford PCM is a joke for the auto. Screw oil, fuel lines, filters, pumps and all bs. Not needed.

Life's a lot simpler than we often make it. You could take a bone stock truck and add absolutely nothing but the 300/200's and zip around town all day long with 20,000lbs behind you smoke free, leaving most people with everything known to man under the hood in your dust because they can't seem to control one value.... pulsewidth....

 

[Harleyx]

I've seen 700 hp on 190 stock nozzles...

 

[Charles]

I've seen 700 hp on 190 stock nozzles...

Are you sure it wasn't 680.5 on spray...

Fwiw, I made 943hp on a 38R with a 300/100 one time. Fuel only of course. Mustang dynos are fun.

 

[Jomax]

I have an 02 crew cab now and wanted to update this thread since this truck is damn near stock and needed a set of injectors to replace the tired set that came in it when I bought it.

This truck is simply my Daily driver that took over for my red truck when I needed two more doors to house a couple car seats in the back that my regular cab could not support. The injectors that came in this truck would not start on a cold day, just flat worn out injectors.

So....

When I replaced them who thinks I went with an AD or something with a tiny little nozze?

I took my old 300's and put a 200 EDM on them. The truck had some crap intake and a 4" downpipe, otherwise it was 100% stock. Since I had a 38R handy I threw it on when I did the injectors. The 38R has the 1.15 non-gated housing.

The truck is super zippy. I forgot how easy it is for a stock compression truck to zip around. I've pushed into the stock trans as far as I can basically. No 30% truck on planet earth would touch it. The 30% truck would be rolling massive coal and losing ground while this truck was leaving out perfectly clean.

I have no gauges, don't need any. I have no fuel pump changes, no oil system changes, nothing. The air filter is as it came, full of dirt, bugs and pinestraw needles. Doesn't matter.

If I had a stock charger I would simply lower the pw a bit to keep it under 25lbs on the top end.

When it comes to tuning it was dead on. I messed around with the auto pcm at first until I realized the surging was because it was not connected to the trans anymore. When I switched to the AEB man trans pcm I sh*t you not, the FIRST program I wrote, and bare in mind this is from DEAD SCRATCH because I did not even have a single file for that cache code, so this includes shaping all the scalers and working through all the parameters from SCRATCH..... regardless, it went down the road GREAT! ZERO, I mean ZEEEEEERO smoke. Flat to the floor 1500rpm kind of zero smoke. And it was WAAAAAAAY too strong. It's not like it was a limp noodle program, this thing was trying to break the trans like right now. On wet roads I had no traction at any speed up to around 100 or so where I gave up. That's on a 35" nitto. So it was making power, too much. But ZERO smoke.

It's not rocket science. I maxed the pw at ~2.2, ran 3000 psi oil and had a nice MFD table that was smooth and linear. I have since dropped the max pw to around 2 IIRC so I don't break the trans. I also added in the little bs like killing the overboost and stuff so you don't need to trick the MAP sensor.

Anyway, point being, I never even sat in the truck and wrote a file that went down the street like a boss right out of the gate.

Anybody that has problems with a 200 do me a favor and check your pulsewidth. Driving around at part throttle in OD lets say, and lugging down, you need to be like 1.x, like 1.2, 1.4 or so.

I don't know what's happening for you all that seem to struggle with a larger nozzle, but pw is all I can think of for you to check, because I can't MAKE a 200 not work!!!

Best....... nozzle....... ever......



On Edit:

Truck seriously just has an intake, exhaust, 38R and 300/200's. Trans has a PCS simply because the Ford PCM is a joke for the auto. Screw oil, fuel lines, filters, pumps and all bs. Not needed.

Life's a lot simpler than we often make it. You could take a bone stock truck and add absolutely nothing but the 300/200's and zip around town all day long with 20,000lbs behind you smoke free, leaving most people with everything known to man under the hood in your dust because they can't seem to control one value.... pulsewidth....

How was fuel pressure? When I had 250/100s on my bone stock E99 it would drop to 20psi at WOT and that was detuned.


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[lincolnlocker]

I have an 02 crew cab now and wanted to update this thread since this truck is damn near stock and needed a set of injectors to replace the tired set that came in it when I bought it.

This truck is simply my Daily driver that took over for my red truck when I needed two more doors to house a couple car seats in the back that my regular cab could not support. The injectors that came in this truck would not start on a cold day, just flat worn out injectors.

So....

When I replaced them who thinks I went with an AD or something with a tiny little nozze?

I took my old 300's and put a 200 EDM on them. The truck had some crap intake and a 4" downpipe, otherwise it was 100% stock. Since I had a 38R handy I threw it on when I did the injectors. The 38R has the 1.15 non-gated housing.

The truck is super zippy. I forgot how easy it is for a stock compression truck to zip around. I've pushed into the stock trans as far as I can basically. No 30% truck on planet earth would touch it. The 30% truck would be rolling massive coal and losing ground while this truck was leaving out perfectly clean.

I have no gauges, don't need any. I have no fuel pump changes, no oil system changes, nothing. The air filter is as it came, full of dirt, bugs and pinestraw needles. Doesn't matter.

If I had a stock charger I would simply lower the pw a bit to keep it under 25lbs on the top end.

When it comes to tuning it was dead on. I messed around with the auto pcm at first until I realized the surging was because it was not connected to the trans anymore. When I switched to the AEB man trans pcm I sh*t you not, the FIRST program I wrote, and bare in mind this is from DEAD SCRATCH because I did not even have a single file for that cache code, so this includes shaping all the scalers and working through all the parameters from SCRATCH..... regardless, it went down the road GREAT! ZERO, I mean ZEEEEEERO smoke. Flat to the floor 1500rpm kind of zero smoke. And it was WAAAAAAAY too strong. It's not like it was a limp noodle program, this thing was trying to break the trans like right now. On wet roads I had no traction at any speed up to around 100 or so where I gave up. That's on a 35" nitto. So it was making power, too much. But ZERO smoke.

It's not rocket science. I maxed the pw at ~2.2, ran 3000 psi oil and had a nice MFD table that was smooth and linear. I have since dropped the max pw to around 2 IIRC so I don't break the trans. I also added in the little bs like killing the overboost and stuff so you don't need to trick the MAP sensor.

Anyway, point being, I never even sat in the truck and wrote a file that went down the street like a boss right out of the gate.

Anybody that has problems with a 200 do me a favor and check your pulsewidth. Driving around at part throttle in OD lets say, and lugging down, you need to be like 1.x, like 1.2, 1.4 or so.

I don't know what's happening for you all that seem to struggle with a larger nozzle, but pw is all I can think of for you to check, because I can't MAKE a 200 not work!!!

Best....... nozzle....... ever......



On Edit:

Truck seriously just has an intake, exhaust, 38R and 300/200's. Trans has a PCS simply because the Ford PCM is a joke for the auto. Screw oil, fuel lines, filters, pumps and all bs. Not needed.

Life's a lot simpler than we often make it. You could take a bone stock truck and add absolutely nothing but the 300/200's and zip around town all day long with 20,000lbs behind you smoke free, leaving most people with everything known to man under the hood in your dust because they can't seem to control one value.... pulsewidth....

i have been wondering what you have been up to.. good read! you should sell your custom tuning lol..

How was fuel pressure? When I had 250/100s on my bone stock E99 it would drop to 20psi at WOT and that was detuned.


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but not tuned like charles is tuned...

live life full throttle

 

[ibestroken]

Great read and good info to know!! Thanks

 

[NC714]

Charles, What software do you use to do your own tuning?

Thanks for the info btw!

 

[Charles]

How was fuel pressure? When I had 250/100s on my bone stock E99 it would drop to 20psi at WOT and that was detuned.


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Don't know. I never felt it nose over or break up (as I have felt with fuel delivery issues) so it was sufficient for power, probably rocking just fine, but I don't know. If it's single digits then Shawn have mercy on my soul, and keep a spare set of P&B's handy..... LOL

I plan to install a pressure sensor that the PCS can read and light up a small red LED in in the cab for low pressure. I wasn't intending it for a power pull, but actually for when the tank is getting low and fuel slosh is uncovering the pickup. I would see the light flickering and know it was time to pull on in. Seems like when these trucks get older with the stock pickup foot they start losing their ability to use the lower 1/4 tank...

I have no intention of installing gauges in this truck. Can't stand them really.

 

[Charles]

Charles, What software do you use to do your own tuning?

Thanks for the info btw!

Minotaur. Bill's templates. Used Bill's PHP tune before that. I've always been able to come up with what I needed so far from Bill.

IME, forget about the trans stuff though. Jump off a cliff, just don't try to tune the trans with the Ford junk. If it's an auto, save some time and just buy a PCS. What a joke. Anybody ever watched a pressure gauge on a trans the ford PCM was controlling? Holy crap! Pick a F'ing pressure already, holy hell life is simpler than that.

Btw, thanks to the phone jockey's for offering to teach me how to tune instead of addressing anything about the template's inability to even remotely control the transmission.

Thankfully I didn't waste any more time on that junk. PCS took roughly 20 minutes to fully bang out a program that......get this...... went 1, 2, lock, 3, 4! Crazy huh! It's weird, because when I reach a shift point in the PCS the trans SHIFTS!!!!, converter LOCKS..... line pressure CHANGES when changes to line pressure are made!!! It's almost like the numbers I'm typing actually MEAN something, LOL

Sorry for the mini-rant, but it still pisses me off that the responses I got were basically *** your face, learn how to tune, with ZERO explanation as to just exactly how moving a lockup point from say 45mph to 40mph would make a truck NEVER lockup! or moving it to 42 would make it lock up at like 60mph but only with contorted throttle positions.

Sh*t just didn't work. The template was not connected to the correct portion of the hex, or the values were all being offset and scaled wrong. Most likely ill-addressed.

Anyway the engine tuning is pretty solid now. Templates are much more accurate than they used to be. Bill also adds neat little groups of maps I only noticed recently where he places associated maps and parameters together, which is handy.

I haven't tried the trans tuning on anything other than the 02, maybe they're better.


And if any of the smart asses would like to explain how to contort the trans templates into functioning I'm all ears. I've got an excursion I would love to tune, but if that means the trans tuning will be the same joke then screw it, it can just stay stock... which it has even though I bought the template it needs for the sole purpose of dialing the trans in.

I would love to back a little bit of line out of the 1-2 and get the converter lock off the 1-2.