Tuning 101 - Thread Merged with Injector Posts

[Countrycar]

Superpsd, This is exactly what I wanted to hear. I have 300/200 w PP heads, stage 1 cam, BTS twins and a 38R w 6X6 wheel and it sucks to drive right now. I'm trying to get a good clean DD tune that doesn't fall on it's face as soon as I hit a grade, or smoke out everyone behind me.

 

[TyCorr]

Superpsd, This is exactly what I wanted to hear. I have 300/200 w PP heads, stage 1 cam, BTS twins and a 38R w 6X6 wheel and it sucks to drive right now. I'm trying to get a good clean DD tune that doesn't fall on it's face as soon as I hit a grade, or smoke out everyone behind me.

Probably way too much fuel in all the tunes. You have more than one tune? Or purchased tunes?

And as built as that setup is Id not be pissing around with a 38r as a single. Get another charger in front of it or get a slightly bigger turbo. A gtx4094r would be badass.

 

[Countrycar]

Tycorr, I'd like nothing more that to do a GTX 4294r, that's what I did the build around, but I live in communist Ca, so I can't do it. It'll never pass smog. Sure you and I know and get it as far as how well/clean it'll run with a bigger charger, but again it's the visual that'll get me.. From what I understand after conversations with a few tuners, it should run clean with the 38r on there. And yes I have a Hydra tuner and I'm working with Matt to get it cleaned up. I have about 3,500 miles on the build as we speak, so still making adjustments. I don't have AE so it's kinda of a crap shoot for Matt with out some real time data to make changes. All I have is a scangauge right now, but I am going to purchase AE real soon. It 'll just makes my life much easier and more so that I have 3 7.3 SD's. I don't have the knowledge that some of you do when it comes to tuning, so I'm completely dependent of guys that do know how to tune. Yeah I know, get outta CALFIFORNIA! But work has brought me here, so for now until I can go back to Texas, I'm kinda stuck here.. There's is no one here in Ca, that knows how to tune these rigs either, so again, I'm kinda screwed. I think Matt will get it right though.

 

[Strokin572]

I really need to get my pig done so I can actually play. Engine isn't even close to done and I already want an auto lol... Ended up with 200/80 hybrids to play with for now. Got 175s but ended up getting a baby upgrade. Next set will definitely have at least a 200% nozzle though.

 

[superpsd]

I would love to have blow the tires off taching out the motor power but I will settle on ok power as I can't afford to blow my 300K mile 7.3.
Besides some rough idling issues due to a bad poppet valve. The old 7.3 did ok light towing up the passes. Just need to push my lazy ass to finish up some of the remaining items that need to be fixed/ installed/or changed.

 

[Charles]

Tycorr, I'd like nothing more that to do a GTX 4294r, that's what I did the build around, but I live in communist Ca, so I can't do it. It'll never pass smog. Sure you and I know and get it as far as how well/clean it'll run with a bigger charger, but again it's the visual that'll get me.. From what I understand after conversations with a few tuners, it should run clean with the 38r on there. And yes I have a Hydra tuner and I'm working with Matt to get it cleaned up. I have about 3,500 miles on the build as we speak, so still making adjustments. I don't have AE so it's kinda of a crap shoot for Matt with out some real time data to make changes. All I have is a scangauge right now, but I am going to purchase AE real soon. It 'll just makes my life much easier and more so that I have 3 7.3 SD's. I don't have the knowledge that some of you do when it comes to tuning, so I'm completely dependent of guys that do know how to tune. Yeah I know, get outta CALFIFORNIA! But work has brought me here, so for now until I can go back to Texas, I'm kinda stuck here.. There's is no one here in Ca, that knows how to tune these rigs either, so again, I'm kinda screwed. I think Matt will get it right though.

Smog tests don't require a minimum power output right??? Just pull the pw out so the truck doesn't even need a turbo. I could have a 7.3 running around with the turbo sitting on the bench at the shop no problem. It would probably only be making 200hp, but it would drive around without smoke...

IIRC, Jonathan at Swamps has made upward of 300 to 350hp on the dyno sans turbo.

Pw is your enemy. It is SO dramatic when you start pulling pulsewidth and adding icp back in its place. Truck will pull the biggest 180 imaginable. Actually no.... it's not imaginable, you can't imagine it until you feel/see it...

No longer needs boost.

 

[Charles]

Jeez...you ever miss that? Or do you want to be able to go out, turn the key, and go on down the road with whatever you can and not have to worry about working on the truck versus working the truck. It seems with what you describe there could be some days where you draw your sanity into question for dailying that setup.

I don't ever miss that..... I ALWAYS miss that..... EVERY single time I roll off a stoplight and just want to roll on, hear that light, low whistle starting up before it cracks off and what looks like pressurized smoke starts billowing out of the rear wheelwells while the boost gauge sits on the high side of 80 and the speedo hums toward my right foot, then lift, gather the ass back up, stab the button for upshift and with a quick roll-on see if the tires are sticky enough to grab, or if another quick obliteration is in order. When it does finally hook it crushes the passenger's side leafsprings, swings another 10lbs of boost and smashes the seat through your back, standing the ass of the truck upward 3 or 4 inches trying to push the rear axle off the frame. And at only 6800lbs, it's movin on out...

I miss being able to move through space that well. Just GET to a point in the distance quickly.

And yes, the maintenance is equally intense. Trans is going to pop about every year or two. Not any sort of slipping or anything, just good, good, good then BAM..... nada.... nothing, walking, lol. That's just GONNA happen. Better have a backup vehicle and a trailer with a winch. I actually have a little device that clips up under the frame on a superduty right below the T-case so you can bolt the driveshaft to it and drive a superduty around with no engine/trans in active duty. That way I can get from the trailer into the shop without anybody else.

Trans is really the only part I could not solve. It's just going to pop something.

 

[TyCorr]

That doesnt surprise me one bit. If the transmission didnt grenade it'd just break something else. Axle maybe.

Im losing interest enough now that im not sure Ill ever get away from 250/200s 38r and a few other support mods. Ive got enough projects going I just want to move things into the "done" column.

 

[Jomax]

That doesnt surprise me one bit. If the transmission didnt grenade it'd just break something else. Axle maybe.

Im losing interest enough now that im not sure Ill ever get away from 250/200s 38r and a few other support mods. Ive got enough projects going I just want to move things into the "done" column.

I think everyone on this forum lost that thing called "done" with their trucks, from the moment we started modding our trucks. They'll never be done lol, close to done, till you think of something else.


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[Jomax]

I don't ever miss that..... I ALWAYS miss that..... EVERY single time I roll off a stoplight and just want to roll on, hear that light, low whistle starting up before it cracks off and what looks like pressurized smoke starts billowing out of the rear wheelwells while the boost gauge sits on the high side of 80 and the speedo hums toward my right foot, then lift, gather the ass back up, stab the button for upshift and with a quick roll-on see if the tires are sticky enough to grab, or if another quick obliteration is in order. When it does finally hook it crushes the passenger's side leafsprings, swings another 10lbs of boost and smashes the seat through your back, standing the ass of the truck upward 3 or 4 inches trying to push the rear axle off the frame. And at only 6800lbs, it's movin on out...



I miss being able to move through space that well. Just GET to a point in the distance quickly.



And yes, the maintenance is equally intense. Trans is going to pop about every year or two. Not any sort of slipping or anything, just good, good, good then BAM..... nada.... nothing, walking, lol. That's just GONNA happen. Better have a backup vehicle and a trailer with a winch. I actually have a little device that clips up under the frame on a superduty right below the T-case so you can bolt the driveshaft to it and drive a superduty around with no engine/trans in active duty. That way I can get from the trailer into the shop without anybody else.



Trans is really the only part I could not solve. It's just going to pop something.

With anything with High HP, maintenance is intense to keep it running.

I usually take Fords severe duty service intervals for my truck and cut it in half.



What was always breaking in your 4r100? Hard parts or clutches?


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[Charles]

With anything with High HP, maintenance is intense to keep it running.

I usually take Fords severe duty service intervals for my truck and cut it in half.



What was always breaking in your 4r100? Hard parts or clutches?


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Everything. Input shaft, converter hub, OD planet and clutches were always good and beat up, so it's not like line was crazy high and clutches weren't getting their share, lol. If the line was any lower the clutches would just smoke in no time.

A trans of that size can only shift under that kind of torque so many times before the splines rip off of something, it cracks in half or a shaft twists off. I NEVER took the trans out that the input shaft was not bent. NEVER... Always had to work my ass off to get it out of the trans. If you looked down the splines they would run perfectly straight then twiiiiist, lol.

I take that back.... the time the input shaft exploded and went through the pump snout that one wasn't bent

Trans failure is a game of service life vs stress. You can stress it hard at 1000+hp bouncing down the track and fail it in a number of minutes, or stress it moderately at 600+ and fail it in months. Fwiw, I never had a failure sub 500rwhp. Must be the magic point where forces start pushing parts past their yield.

 

[Jomax]

Everything. Input shaft, converter hub, OD planet and clutches were always good and beat up, so it's not like line was crazy high and clutches weren't getting their share, lol. If the line was any lower the clutches would just smoke in no time.



A trans of that size can only shift under that kind of torque so many times before the splines rip off of something, it cracks in half or a shaft twists off. I NEVER took the trans out that the input shaft was not bent. NEVER... Always had to work my ass off to get it out of the trans. If you looked down the splines they would run perfectly straight then twiiiiist, lol.



I take that back.... the time the input shaft exploded and went through the pump snout that one wasn't bent



Trans failure is a game of service life vs stress. You can stress it hard at 1000+hp bouncing down the track and fail it in a number of minutes, or stress it moderately at 600+ and fail it in months. Fwiw, I never had a failure sub 500rwhp. Must be the magic point where forces start pushing parts past their yield.

Curious how long my truck with 570hp will last lol. I believe the newer trucks drivetrain wise are a bit stouter.


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[Charles]

Curious how long my truck with 570hp will last lol. I believe the newer trucks drivetrain wise are a bit stouter.


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Should last fine. At 550wheel I never had an issue. And I used the power, unlike some.

 

[Jomax]

Should last fine. At 550wheel I never had an issue. And I used the power, unlike some.

What was your truck pushing that it was breaking the trans?


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[TyCorr]

Well it dynoed 644 per the list...but it wound up with m9re fuel iirc

 

[cbf9703]

Well it dynoed 644 per the list...but it wound up with m9re fuel iirc

That dyno....

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[TyCorr]

That dyno....

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Idk what that means. Wasnt it dynoed at Dunbars? Dynojet 248c?

 

[sideswipe]

question for charles

Would you be willing Charles to show me in person
how to tune with your guidance to help me write
A tune for my truck. I have done alot of reading but
Im only food at hands on learning. I have what you
call hdad deficit learning.

 

[Charles]

Would you be willing Charles to show me in person
how to tune with your guidance to help me write
A tune for my truck. I have done alot of reading but
Im only food at hands on learning. I have what you
call hdad deficit learning.

With 2 young kids, time is a non commodity for me at present, lol. Regardless, any questions you have will almost certainly be the exact same ones that others have, so ask them and me and anyone else can chime in and try to help get you pointed in the right direction.

Really the only requirement is that you actually be tuning in between question asking, because just talking about things will never, ever work on this subject in my experience. The results have to be felt in the truck. Mainly so that it can be understood how things do NOT work.

There are a few common areas that always need attention when changing a calibration. I think everyone else will have the same issues you will, as did I and as I will continue to have and work through with the same solutions learned in the past every time I make changes.

Idle quality, idle rpm "backup" if you will, so that idle has "power" to stay put when dropped in gear, or clutch released, things like the "gov spings" for lack of an electronic equivalent term, where you shape the MFD table so that the truck will slowly tail on fuel as rpm climbs so that it will have reserve power off a shift and the net effect is smooth acceleration, as opposed to the engine running away and then dogging out if the "governer" was too "loose", or the engine trailing off hard and then rocking back to life way too hard if the "governer" was too "tight" like Ag style. That is something controlled by the steepness of the MFD table. If the values for a given pedal position fall sharply as rpm climbs, the truck will act more "AG" and if the values are shallow with little fall with increasing rpm the truck will kiiiiiiind offffff ruuuuuuuuuuuunnnnnnnnnn aaaaawwwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay as you hold you foot still on the pedal through a gear, lol. Makes me want to throw a lit match at one. You end up having to let off to keep the truck from taking off, then you have to stab back on right off the shift, over.... and over..... and over.... until you go insane....

Point being, areas like this are always in play, for every truck, for everybody. The same issues will effect everybody.

 

[superpsd]

One good way to learn is dig up the older Minotaur threads on here that have a lenghty conversation with pictures of the maps of how to tune. One way that helped me learn was pulling up a stock tune and a performance tune and hit F9 you will overlay the two maps so you can see what changes are being made. Make small changes one map at a time and test them out.