Where did I go wrong?

The Brad · Feb 21, 2015

In November 2013, I installed PIS 200/80's, a 38R, 910 springs, and a few other goodies in my sig. Since then, I've had intermittent rough idle, excessive EGTs, hazing and raw fuel smell during the brutally cold Southern California mornings (50f). I used AE to identify high Perdel readings and swapped injectors to see if Perdel followed the stick. Warrantied 3 injectors and no more high Perdel readings, but I still have an idle that ranges from near perfect, to sounds a little rough, to a lope that shakes the whole truck as if a couple of cylinders quit firing. I worked with Jody/DP on tuning, tried PHP, and eventually had Jody Live tune it. Jody mentioned that he had to do some weird chit to make it run right.

Fuel pressure stays around 60 in daily and tow tunes. 100hp tune drops it to low 50's, and the all out tune will drop it quick. I have a second Bosch pump to add, but I want solve these other issues first.

With stock injectors and built stock turbo, I could pull my 26ft toy hauler (7.5k empty, 11.5k loaded) up Cajon Pass (6% grade on Interstate 15) and hold 65 in drive, keeping EGTs at or under 1200*. With the current set up, I have to drop to second gear and keep rpms over 2600 to keep it cool.

When it idles smooth, I notice more power for a given throttle position and the EGTs are equal in both banks, but when running rough and towing, I've seen the odd bank range from up to 100* warmer while running, to 90* cooler at idle.

I've replaced ICP sensor, IPR, CPS, EBP sensor,hutch mod, FRx and no difference.
I have some idle videos to upload here in a bit.

jeremiahmercier · Feb 21, 2015

Sound like some of the same symptoms I had with my old 160/0 injectors

ghohouston · Feb 21, 2015

What does icp/ipr duty cycle look like when it acts up?

jeremiahmercier · Feb 21, 2015

To add, (when I was going through these issues) when higher icp was called for , the problem seemed to get worse. If truck was ran in stock tune, it would mask a lot of symptoms.. These were of course roughness while driving, idle problems were pretty much always present

The Brad · Feb 21, 2015

ghohouston said:
What does icp/ipr duty cycle look like when it acts up?

Only change in ICP/IPR is with oil temp. Note the tattle tale arrows in the pic.

The Brad · Feb 21, 2015

Here's some videos:
Rough idle
http://youtu.be/SNbJ8J1Nt3c

http://youtu.be/u0dUqy19HM8

http://youtu.be/1FbaMOn1osk

http://youtu.be/ee-f9jxIL3c

Loud tick:
http://youtu.be/g_3LxT19e5I

Smooth idle:

http://youtu.be/hxIChvEOZCk

At any given moment within a 15 minute drive, the truck will run smooth or rough. I've had it run smooth for a few days, or a few minutes at a time.

Arisley · Feb 21, 2015

Just a wag, how many miles on the HPOP?

The Brad · Feb 21, 2015

Arisley said:
Just a wag, how many miles on the HPOP?

170k. IPR DC won't go over 40% at 3000 psi ICP. Me thinks the hpop is fine. With stock sticks I rarely set the 1211 CEL in hot tune.

jeremiahmercier · Feb 21, 2015

Arisley said:
Just a wag, how many miles on the HPOP?

The Brad said:
170k. IPR DC won't go over 40% at 3000 psi ICP. Me thinks the hpop is fine. With stock sticks I rarely set the 1211 CEL in hot tune.

Didn't your problems go away when you swapped injectors?

Brad, you have a pm as well

ghohouston · Feb 21, 2015

^along with that, how does the ipr harness/pigtail look? I've seen then cause intermittent issues when diesel eats up the weather pack insulation between the wires

Ron's Power Stroke · Feb 21, 2015

you should be running a full regulated return...

Blowby · Feb 21, 2015

You found the problem in EGT,s = Fuel difference between odd and even side.

More fuel = temp up under load, temp down under no load.
Haze should be heavier on same side.

The Brad · Feb 21, 2015

jeremiahmercier said:
Didn't your problems go away when you swapped injectors?

Brad, you have a pm as well

Perdel readings dropped, idle improved some, but the problem remains. I didnt get the PM.

The Brad · Feb 21, 2015

Ron's Power Stroke said:
you should be running a full regulated return...

You're probably right, but I'm trying to keep a stockish appearance for the Kalifornia smog nazis.

The Brad · Feb 21, 2015

Blowby said:
You found the problem in EGT,s = Fuel difference between odd and even side.

More fuel = temp up under load, temp down under no load.
Haze should be heavier on same side.

Yes, but why does the problem come and go? What switch is being flipped when one bank decides to run hotter, or cooler than the other, and then a few miles later, sync up again? I'm trying to find a cheaper option than buying ANOTHER set of injectors.

V-Ref · Feb 21, 2015

The Brad said:
When it idles smooth, I notice more power for a given throttle position and the EGTs are equal in both banks, but when running rough and towing, I've seen the odd bank range from up to 100* warmer while running, to 90* cooler at idle.

I'd focus on diagnosing this.

A compression test would be my next bet.

You can search in my posts, for what a video of Unlimited built 200% nozzle injs idle like in Alaska winter temps.

V-Ref · Feb 21, 2015

The Brad said:
Yes, but why does the problem come and go? What switch is being flipped when one bank decides to run hotter, or cooler than the other, and then a few miles later, sync up again? I'm trying to find a cheaper option than buying ANOTHER set of injectors.

If the truck idled fine before the injector install, but now it doesn't....run a compression test, and very all those injectors are fully seated. AE buzz test. And then I'd be looking for another set of injs.

The Brad · Feb 21, 2015

I agree on the comp test. I need to round up a tester and the time to do it myself. I had an off duty ford tech look it over and he said compression was good, but when I asked for numbers,he said he didn't write them down, but they were good. I've seen a hundred videos of bigger injectors doing everything better than my little hybrids, just makes me madder.

The Brad · Feb 21, 2015

V-Ref said:
If the truck idled fine before the injector install, but now it doesn't....run a compression test, and very all those injectors are fully seated. AE buzz test. And then I'd be looking for another set of injs.

Exactly what I didnt want to hear. I pulled the VC's about 6 times over the last year and rechecked the hold down bolts. All have stayed put. Straight edge across the solenoids checks out too.