Wicked Wheel G2 for 38R Test Results

[Cr500]

That statement I made was meaning towards a 38r within its normal efficiency range. Etc.
but, in my laymen s way of thinking I look at back pressure as a number to tell me how well the overall setup is working. Without knowing everything about your situation, comp inlet temp, outlet temp, comp inlet pressure/ vacuum, outlet pressure, etc it would hard to determine shaft speed, because with just a boost reading you can't plot a line on a map. You can get an idea with boost, but with knowing everything else you can do the equations backwards and get a line plotted. From that you can determine shaft speeds and such. Garrett makes a shaft speed sensor kit.
Early ih garrett vgts had them. Actually every 6.0 bearing housing has the provision for it, just not drilled. It requires on those a different bearing collar.
Another way to roughly get an idea is with a mass airflow meter of some kind.
The 6.0s, 6.4s have them because of the egr mess. If you knew airflow at compressor inlet, basically what it is consuming, and boost, in this case compressor outlet pressure vs manifold, and say you had a maf/ boost reading in 5 psi increments, you could get a line plotted on a map, then from that get a close measurement on not only how that compressor is working on your vehicle, but also shaft rpm.
You will see if you need more air, or less, smaller turbine, larger, etc depending on where everything fell.
But I would not look at back pressure as a relation to wheel speed.

 

[Dieselsite]

The reason GTP turbos are component balanced is because of the relatively slow rpms they turn. 100k rpms may seem like a lot, but in turbos, that can be very slow.

There's a co called Hines Industries that made the balancing equipment that Garrett used for the GTP turbos when they went into production. I can't verify that's what they use today. They verified that these turbos are component balanced, and a conversation I had with the owner of Hines years ago got us into a conversation about whether we really needed to do it anyway. He said a certain co, named B.... (who wanted to sell wheels in their kits) wanted to make sure there customers were being sold a tested product and could do the swap without issues. So, this co. actually paid Hines to run tests and confirm that there was not enough of a balance issue with the rpms generated to cause an issue.

So, while it won't hurt, I still stand by the fact that I don't believe you are adding any life span to a GTP38 turbo by assembly balancing the unit.


As to the GTP38R. Rumour has it that there isn't a dual balbearing capable balancing machine in the states. That being said, I was told that shops that do balance them might think they are in fact balancing them, but might actually set them in worse shape. I would have to hear a dispute of that from Garrett or another manufacturer of dual ballbearing turbos. Not sure there is another manufacturer, as most "ballbearing" turbos on the market are actually one ballbearing and one journal bearing.

Bob

 

[skylinedan]

I know I read the turbos on a eco boost are seeing upwards of 200,000 + rpm wise, but they are a lot smaller too, LOL.

Dan

 

[under pressure]

The smaller the turbo, the faster they spin from industry talk i have been looking at.
I was reading the garrett 4088 lg. frame is high at 90,000 rpms. And the smaller performace turbos are high at 290,000 rpm. Very interesting stuff !

 

[85_305]

My VNT in my tdi spins about 250k rpms. 32psi @ 5500rpms.

 

[Tom S]

The reason GTP turbos are component balanced is because of the relatively slow rpms they turn. 100k rpms may seem like a lot, but in turbos, that can be very slow.

There's a co called Hines Industries that made the balancing equipment that Garrett used for the GTP turbos when they went into production. I can't verify that's what they use today. They verified that these turbos are component balanced, and a conversation I had with the owner of Hines years ago got us into a conversation about whether we really needed to do it anyway. He said a certain co, named B.... (who wanted to sell wheels in their kits) wanted to make sure there customers were being sold a tested product and could do the swap without issues. So, this co. actually paid Hines to run tests and confirm that there was not enough of a balance issue with the rpms generated to cause an issue.

So, while it won't hurt, I still stand by the fact that I don't believe you are adding any life span to a GTP38 turbo by assembly balancing the unit.


As to the GTP38R. Rumour has it that there isn't a dual balbearing capable balancing machine in the states. That being said, I was told that shops that do balance them might think they are in fact balancing them, but might actually set them in worse shape. I would have to hear a dispute of that from Garrett or another manufacturer of dual ballbearing turbos. Not sure there is another manufacturer, as most "ballbearing" turbos on the market are actually one ballbearing and one journal bearing.

Bob

Good discussion!

I wish I could remember who it was that had connection to rebalance the 38r turbos shortly after the re-release where there were the complaints about the low boost sound levels and siren noise. I think it was either Matt or Dennis but I cannot remember which one it was.

 

[Tom S]

I found some information.

http://powerstrokenation.com/forums/showthread.php?t=78672&page=2

http://www.powerstrokenation.com/forums/showthread.php?t=54374&page=3

 

[campbellflage]

WOOT WOOT.. I just ordered my 38R WW... was one of the first 50 too, got it at the discounted rate!!

 

[4duggan]

Dayum , got shipment tracking info already.

Thanks Dieselsite. Already happy with how the truck runs so this will probably be the last go-fast mod for awhile. Gonna spend more time and money on the maintaining my girls and replacing some parts that I have got my monies worth out of.
Which means I will be in touch.

 

[lincolnlocker]

holy chit!! i have a tracking number already too!!

 

[lincolnlocker]

As soon as the production units are here and for sale, one is getting shipped off to Beans for him to test in his D66.

has this been done yet or any news of bean trying it out?

 

[Bigsexy]

Mine says it will be here tommorow. Now thats a valentines day gift to myself

 

[lincolnlocker]

mine showed up today.

live life full throttle

 

[Nally7.3powerstroke]

So what is the final verdict??? Does the 38R need to be rebalanced with the WW2 or not?? Couldnt really get a final answer out of reading this.

 

[Bigsexy]

My turbo guy who does a lot of turbos says not to worry about it if the wheel your taking off doesnt look chewed up

 

[TyCorr]

Im of the school of thought that it does NOT need to be. I also.have been told.that bb chargers require a special machine to be balanced properly. Guarantee "greasy Roy's repair" doesnt have the correct equipment. I might see if somebody can check the replacement wheel for balance. I think one of.the sponsors explained this as "component balancing". This.guy isnt.going to even entertain getting his.balanced.

 

[Bigsexy]

So the package says to not use an impact gun which im ok with that but how do you know when its tight enough and do you still use locktight on this one.

 

[littleredstroker]

So the package says to not use an impact gun which im ok with that but how do you know when its tight enough and do you still use locktight on this one.

I remember on my stocker and ww1 I tqued it to 100-120 inch pounds I think it was . Tq wrench on wheel, screwdriver with rag around it in the turbine housing

sent while trying not to JJ My rods!!!!!!

 

[campbellflage]

So the package says to not use an impact gun which im ok with that but how do you know when its tight enough and do you still use locktight on this one.

in for the same info... Mine showed up last week and I haven't been able to install it.. I have stock injectors and don't expect much but any gain would be nice.

 

[CSIPSD]

No lock tight, most times I dont even use a wrench. Tighten with hand and reinstall. Its going to get tighter as the wheel spins.