ZF6 -650 rebuild and other things I've done on my early 99 7.3 F350

[Arisley]

That would be a long commute from Reno NV.

I bet he designs roulette wheel brakes. LOL

 

[Dave_Nevada]

I think I’ll stick with an auto trans LOL, great thread Dave.

For your job, let me guess, you work in Area 51? Lol
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Nope. :naughty:

 

[Dave_Nevada]

I think I’ll stick with an auto trans LOL, great thread Dave.

For your job, let me guess, you work in Area 51? Lol
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You do that. Meanwhile I'm getting 21 mpg (unloaded) highway. You're not going to see that with a slush box. I do like automatics for towing, nothing wrong with it, just wanted a stick.

 

[Dave_Nevada]

That would be a long commute from Reno NV.

I bet he designs roulette wheel brakes. LOL

Hmmm. Well, Reno is where all that stuff started. Vegas wasn't even a pimple on the arse of progress when Reno was going full bore in the roaring 20's.

Gambling, speak-easy's, divorce in 6 weeks, legal ho houses, 24 hr debauchery.

Just don't get caught cheating the wheel, cards or slots. That would get your arse beaten wned: to a pulp by club security and a ride in the back of a Reno PD car to the stateline. :morons:

Uh yes, they worked hand in hand to ensure YOUR customer experience.

Ahhh, those were the days.

 

[79jasper]

You do that. Meanwhile I'm getting 21 mpg (unloaded) highway. You're not going to see that with a slush box. I do like automatics for towing, nothing wrong with it, just wanted a stick.

That's debatable.


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[Dave_Nevada]

That's debatable.


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Pffft. Have fun with that.

 

[79jasper]

For a stock pre-2003 trans, I would say you are right. But this isn't 1980 anymore. Lol

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[Dave_Nevada]

Starter took a dump

Wow. My luck lately hasn't been so good.

Blasted starter simply rolled over and stuck its legs in the air.

I've been reading about numerous complaints in regard to the aftermarket replacement starters- no thanks.

Utter waste of good money.

So here we go again. I will pull an old one apart (I have laying around from my old 95) and rebuild it. It's the OEM Mitsubishi (Made In Japan) type, not the Commie Joe pile of quivering steamy puppy crap.

A common complaint about Commie Joe stuff is that it regularly fails within a year. What those idiots don't get is I don't care how cheap they sell them, I need long term reliability.

If you live in Northern Nevada like I do, getting stuck from a bad starter out in some of the desolate places I travel can be life threatening.

So yeah, I put a premium on reliability.

I will document (as usual) along the way and show through pictures and text what I did.

These things aren't that tough to do, and you can save yourself some real future grief by doing it yourself.

If you're cheap and stupid, buy the Commie Joe stuff.

Good luck with that, when they fail, it will ALWAYS make you wish you spent a few bucks more when you had it out the first time.

Funny, I watch dudes spend gobs of cash on wheels, but go squeaky arse cheap on quality parts. :shrug:

I just don't get it.

Pay me now, pay me MORE later.

After I rebuild one starter, I'll do a spare rebuild and keep it in the truck tool box. I'm not kidding when I say "I really need reliability."

 

[Dave_Nevada]

"But this isn't 1980 anymore. Lol"

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Whuaaaa?

Not 1980 anymore?

Yeah, thank God for that. I was making $6.50 an hour, and only the worst President EVER was in office, inflation raging 12-14%, Gold was $800 an ounce, interest rates on homes was 18%, credit cards were 29-32%, real unemployment hovered around 14%, and Jimmy Cahhhtah just kept saying, 'What, me worry?"

Men running around with big hair and spandex on stage acting like freaks. I always wondered what my grandpa would think of that crap.

But what the hell does 1980 have to do with getting less fuel mileage with an automatic? Sure, you have lock up torque converters, but you still slip some of that torque. That's the nature of the beast.

No matter how much you tune your beast, you can't have it all. There are trade off's, and that's one you can't out run with an automatic.

Does that mean they aren't worth using? Not at all. Just don't expect the same numbers, that's all.

 

[79jasper]

We'll leave it at that. Lol (btw, I don't even run a auto. Zf5)
You should look at the starter thread on here. You can take the motor from a 6.7 starter and out the 7.3 nose on it.

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[Dave_Nevada]

We'll leave it at that. Lol (btw, I don't even run a auto. Zf5)
You should look at the starter thread on here. You can take the motor from a 6.7 starter and out the 7.3 nose on it.

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Yeah, you can do that with a lot of different starters. Bigger stuff like MT40-42's on medium diesels is very common to swap or spin the nose.

On those starters, mostly the nose is changed, the rest is the same. But I'm not into the weird jacked up piggyback type of race starters for diesels, there's no dang room down under there right now, where the hell you gonna stuff that dang thing? For the amount of life you get out of OEM, they're really not bad at all.

There's nothing wrong with a planetary gear drive on the Mitsubishi- that's not what fails. It's the brushes- IF you're not an arse and try to grind your Bendix (starter spur) off. You have to use caution with these things and not try to use them as a metal lathe!

 

[Dave_Nevada]

We'll leave it at that. Lol (btw, I don't even run a auto. Zf5)
You should look at the starter thread on here. You can take the motor from a 6.7 starter and out the 7.3 nose on it.

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BTW- I like ZF5's. They get the job done and are much easier (and cheaper) to rebuild than the ZF6.

If I had one around, that's exactly what I would have installed instead of the ZF6, but with a single disk, not those expensive dual disk setups.

Besides, who the hell needs the ZF6 creeper gear unless you're starting out with a 20 ton load out back? Then it makes sense.

 

[Arisley]

You really should start a new starter rebuild thread. Keep them separate. Either that or I can rename this thread the "Nevada Dave Parts Rebuild" thread.

I have rebuilt a few starters in my time.

 

[Dave_Nevada]

You really should start a new starter rebuild thread. Keep them separate. Either that or I can rename this thread the "Nevada Dave Parts Rebuild" thread.

I have rebuilt a few starters in my time.

Sounds good, will do.

As soon as i get some material together, I'll get on it.

Thanks for the suggestion.

 

[ja_cain]

I saved my old starter so I could rebuild it. Hell, I think I even had a thread going on the process, but it's been awhile. Can't wait to see what you get into.

Nothing wrong with being a ludite. There was a time when I was all into emerging technology. The older I get, the more I appreciate simplicity and self sufficiency! That's why my dream truck is an F450 with a compounded (don't care for smoke shows) DT360 swapped into it. If only I had the time to work on a controller for the Bosch H series pump, it would be the ultimate almost all mechanical setup. I just want dynamic timing to make cold starting easier, but give it a broader operating range. I'm rambling. Lol!



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[BBslider001]

Hi Dave, I have one question maybe you can answer, cuz no one else has been able to. I know there is gear rollover, but my ZF-6 whines, in every gear. It perform fine, got a new clutch this past summer, and has Schaeffer's lube in it overfilled by a quart. Do you know if this might be the pump, or is this normal and I don't need to worry about it? It never gets hot on the floor unless I am towing heavy, but I figured that's normal. Any input would be appreciated. Thanks. Great write-up btw!

 

[euroford]

well, I had a good weekend. My parts from All State were supposed to show up on Monday, but instead showed up on Friday. missing a spacer though... which then showed up on Saturday.

So, Saturday night I got the gear-set reassembled. it went together easy as can be, like putting together Lego's. Warmed up in the oven, everything just slid right together as smooth as could be. I honestly hope to notch open this one up again for a long long long time, but I wouldn't hesitate to work on a ZF6 again.

Someday, it would be very cool to get one of these as a builder and do a full new parts rebuild with cryo treated and micro polished parts. Not running out to do that right away, but definitely something i'll put on the "cool projects i'd like to do someday" list.

Thanks for the assistance Dave, hopefully tonight I can get it stabbed back in there and on the road again!

 

[Dave_Nevada]

well, I had a good weekend. My parts from All State were supposed to show up on Monday, but instead showed up on Friday. missing a spacer though... which then showed up on Saturday.

So, Saturday night I got the gear-set reassembled. it went together easy as can be, like putting together Lego's. Warmed up in the oven, everything just slid right together as smooth as could be. I honestly hope to notch open this one up again for a long long long time, but I wouldn't hesitate to work on a ZF6 again.

Someday, it would be very cool to get one of these as a builder and do a full new parts rebuild with cryo treated and micro polished parts. Not running out to do that right away, but definitely something i'll put on the "cool projects i'd like to do someday" list.

Thanks for the assistance Dave, hopefully tonight I can get it stabbed back in there and on the road again!

Very nice. They aren't all that bad if you take your time. Once you do a ZF6, a ZF5 is child's play.

Just make sure you have that synchro ring chamfer installed correctly on that back half. those are specific as to the direction the chamfer points. The manual points this out. I'll bet the weight of that gear assembly surprised you when you pulled it out. :drool:

Also, don't use silicone to make the seal on the cases, you don't want that crap plugging up the oiling system. Get some Permatex goop, much better seal. Silicone will fail after awhile. Good job!!

 

[Dave_Nevada]

Hi Dave, I have one question maybe you can answer, cuz no one else has been able to. I know there is gear rollover, but my ZF-6 whines, in every gear. It perform fine, got a new clutch this past summer, and has Schaeffer's lube in it overfilled by a quart. Do you know if this might be the pump, or is this normal and I don't need to worry about it? It never gets hot on the floor unless I am towing heavy, but I figured that's normal. Any input would be appreciated. Thanks. Great write-up btw!

Hi Byron,

If it's all the time it sounds like you may have some slop in your bearing preload. Another cause can be a ****ty pilot bearing. If that pilot bearing is the needle bearing roller style, my money is on that. I have tossed the needle bearing roller style in my 7.3 with an old skool bronze Oilite bearing in mine. That bearing is used with a 68 302 Mustang with a toploader, and a few other Ford vehicles.

Dorman 690-039 https://www.dormanproducts.com/p-24562-690-039.aspx

it works perfectly and I have had no issues with it. Others on here have done the same. DO NOT USE iron sintered types, they will grind your input shaft to crap. Use only Oilite types.

if you're running a 6.0, you will have to have one machined, but it's worth it. The input shaft on a 6.0 is 1", hence the requirement to have a bearing machined.

Keep in mind the slop tolerance for your input shaft isn't much. If you have a sloppy input shaft pilot bearing (or one that has run out of lube), that can cause whining throughout all gears and it destroys your input shaft.

Other than that, I'd have to tear it down to look at the gear races to see what is exactly wrong. Heat plays a huge factor with these ZF6's, so change your lube regularly. Heavy load towing is hard on the lube.

 

[BBslider001]

Hi Byron,

If it's all the time it sounds like you may have some slop in your bearing preload. Another cause can be a ****ty pilot bearing. If that pilot bearing is the needle bearing roller style, my money is on that. I have tossed the needle bearing roller style in my 7.3 with an old skool bronze Oilite bearing in mine. That bearing is used with a 68 302 Mustang with a toploader, and a few other Ford vehicles.

Dorman 690-039 https://www.dormanproducts.com/p-24562-690-039.aspx

it works perfectly and I have had no issues with it. Others on here have done the same. DO NOT USE iron sintered types, they will grind your input shaft to crap. Use only Oilite types.

if you're running a 6.0, you will have to have one machined, but it's worth it. The input shaft on a 6.0 is 1", hence the requirement to have a bearing machined.

Keep in mind the slop tolerance for your input shaft isn't much. If you have a sloppy input shaft pilot bearing (or one that has run out of lube), that can cause whining throughout all gears and it destroys your input shaft.

Other than that, I'd have to tear it down to look at the gear races to see what is exactly wrong. Heat plays a huge factor with these ZF6's, so change your lube regularly. Heavy load towing is hard on the lube.

Well, I did just do the clutch 6 months ago, but it had started this noise before then. I used the pilot bearing sleeve fix...I know I know, not the best though it seemed to fit real well. I put an extra light layer of bearing lube on the bearing before install (not enough to affect the clutch in any way). When I have to do this again, I will use the Oil Lite bearing for sure.

As far as fluid, I did the overfill from the top of the trans and used Schaeffer's All Trans, which is Mercon V compatible. I am hoping the 256k miles hasn't taken it's toll. I guess I'll just keep going with it and maybe change my fluid one more time before this next trip. What fluid are you using? Maybe that Schaeffers isn't the best, though its a good fluid?

Thanks for taking the time on your thread to address my concerns! Much appreciated!