7.3 Turbo talk

Big Bore · Sep 13, 2011

SouthFlstrokin' said:
V-ref,

Thank you again. I'll read up! I'm very new to the turbo game. Not really sure in which direction I want to go with the truck. One day its 250/200s one day its 238/100s.... Only time will tell as I have to make a decision soon :redspotdance:

250/200's>238/100's

Derek@Vision Diesel · Sep 13, 2011

There is 0 reasons why youd ever buy a 238/100 over a 250/200.

In fact i bet builders will stop producing the 238/100 as they arent selling NEARLY as many as they used to.

You can tune a 250/200 properly to run cooler and more efficient than the little 100% nozzle. Which means cooler, less smoke, better attomization etc...

average · Sep 13, 2011

What's the horsepower limit for 238/100's vs 250/100's or 200's in anyone's experience?

V-Ref · Sep 13, 2011

Strokeorcroak said:
There is 0 reasons why youd ever buy a 238/100 over a 250/200.

In fact i bet builders will stop producing the 238/100 as they arent selling NEARLY as many as they used to.

You can tune a 250/200 properly to run cooler and more efficient than the little 100% nozzle. Which means cooler, less smoke, better attomization etc...

Do you have any experience with a nozzle smaller than 100%? Just asking. Some folks might be making a injector nozzle decision based on your post. They should know if its coming from experience or not. If it was, that might be the perspective that fella would need to make their decision.

V-Ref · Sep 13, 2011

average said:
What's the horsepower limit for 238/100's vs 250/100's or 200's in anyone's experience?

This was posted by a pretty smart fella a while back-
__________________
The most common question I see for guys wanting to pick injectors is what to get and why.

There is a general formula I like to use that is 2.3HP for every CC of fuel that you can use effectively. Do these numbers jive with what everyone is seeing in the real world?

So figuring RWHP with an automatic trans. This takes into account horsepower peak happening between 2600-3000RPMs. All numbers based on single shots.

Here are some common injector combinations and the power level they usually accomodate. This also assumes you can maintain proper HPOP pressure.

I am also using common street nozzles 30% EH, 80% and 100% EDM nozzles. The larger nozzles allow you to push the power peak up into the higher rpms and make more HP. These are typical fuel only numbers because nitrous oxide allows you to peak the power lower in the RPM scale and make more peak torque and therefore more HP. There are so many variables that these are merely general guidlines.

General Rule of Thumb max power with no nitrous (but a properly matched turbo):

90cc stock nozzle 225HP
130cc stock nozzle 260-290HP
160cc stock nozzle 300-345HP
160cc 30% nozzle 350-360HP
180cc stock nozzle 300-350HP
180cc 30% nozzle 370-390HP
180cc 80% nozzle 400-425HP
200cc 30% nozzle 385-410HP
200cc 80% nozzle 400-440HP
200cc 100% nozzle 420-460HP

238cc 30% nozzle 440-475HP
(depends on air flow in lower rpms can make 550HP with nitrous for example)

238cc 80% nozzle 450-520HP
238cc 100% nozzle 465-550HP
250cc 30% not much gain over 238cc with 30%
250cc 80% nozzle 460-530HP
250cc 100% nozzle 470-575HP

It gets sketchy above that number due to the other variables that are involved with HP levels much above 550. Also remember that RPM can play a major factor. Somebody have corrections or want to add anything?
__________________
Matt Robinson
Gearhead Automotive Performance
---------------------------------------

Not sure about 200% nozzles. 706 hp was made by Thuglike recently with 200% nozzles and a GT4202....highest number I've heard or read of for 200%'ers.

JMHO-But most of the 200% nozzle trucks need more air, or built motors to see the nozzles full power potential realized.

Big Bore · Sep 13, 2011

V-Ref said:
There is a general formula I like to use that is 2.3HP for every CC of fuel that you can use effectively.
Matt Robinson
Gearhead Automotive Performance
---------------------------------------

Not sure about 200% nozzles. 706 hp was made by Thuglike recently with 200% nozzles and a GT4202....highest number I've heard or read of for 200%'ers.

JMHO-But most of the 200% nozzle trucks need more air, or built motors to see the nozzles full power potential realized.

As you can see, there is a big discrepency there. The 2.3HP per CC has fallen by the wayside with the higher % nozzles. I've seen several dyno numbers here that are 2.6HP per CC and higher. I think a lot more information has come forward since Matt wrote that.

TrailerHauler · Sep 13, 2011

Very good read!

V-Ref · Sep 13, 2011

Big Bore said:
As you can see, there is a big discrepency there. The 2.3HP per CC has fallen by the wayside with the higher % nozzles. I've seen several dyno numbers here that are 2.6HP per CC and higher. I think a lot more information has come forward since Matt wrote that.

Interesting. I need to get my tuner this information. :lookaround:

Powerstroke Cowboy · Sep 14, 2011

V-Ref said:
Interesting. I need to get my tuner this information. :lookaround:

did you not know you should be do 1040 at the wheels?????

oke:

Derek@Vision Diesel · Sep 14, 2011

V-Ref said:
Do you have any experience with a nozzle smaller than 100%? Just asking. Some folks might be making a injector nozzle decision based on your post. They should know if its coming from experience or not. If it was, that might be the perspective that fella would need to make their decision.

I have ran stock, 80, 100, 200. I have never tried a 30% which seems to be the most popular between 80 and stock.

I can say that my 200's run the coolest if you put that into perspective. I can also say it takes some time to get the tuning correct, dont expect to install them and get one set of tunes on your chip and be driving perfectly for the rest of time. BUT.... Once the tuning is dialed in you are going to be one happy camper.

V-Ref · Sep 14, 2011

Strokeorcroak said:
I have ran stock, 80, 100, 200. I have never tried a 30% which seems to be the most popular between 80 and stock.

I can say that my 200's run the coolest if you put that into perspective. I can also say it takes some time to get the tuning correct, dont expect to install them and get one set of tunes on your chip and be driving perfectly for the rest of time. BUT.... Once the tuning is dialed in you are going to be one happy camper.

Good stuff Strokeorcroak. After all those nozzles 200% is the best bet in your book then.....

How heavy/high have you towed with your 200% injs? What turbo? How successful would you rate that experience?

Kinda makes a fella wonder....what compromises are associated with 300% nozzles then :evil

Big Bore · Sep 14, 2011

V-Ref said:
Interesting. I need to get my tuner this information. :lookaround:

I didn't say this was applicable across the board, but there have been people making those numbers and posted here.

Derek@Vision Diesel · Sep 14, 2011

V-Ref said:
Good stuff Strokeorcroak. After all those nozzles 200% is the best bet in your book then.....

How heavy/high have you towed with your 200% injs? What turbo? How successful would you rate that experience?

Kinda makes a fella wonder....what compromises are associated with 300% nozzles then :evil

Towing doesnt happen very often, i dont have many good numbers for that. Just a comparison on the track/and running hard on the street.
Most of my days have been with a 72mm s300, it spools up pretty good and cleans up decent but there arent many singles out there that will FULLY clean up a 250/200 that is putting out max fuel, ive had to pull some fuel back up top to keep it cleaner.

I think the only thing holding us back from 300% nozzles is tuning, it took a long time to get 200% nozzles tweaked just perfectly to run like they do now. a year ago some thought they COULD NOT TOW with that nozzle. Let the tuning advance a little and we may just be at a 300% daily driver nozzle

Big Bore · Sep 14, 2011

Strokeorcroak said:
I think the only thing holding us back from 300% nozzles is tuning, it took a long time to get 200% nozzles tweaked just perfectly to run like they do now. a year ago some thought they COULD NOT TOW with that nozzle. Let the tuning advance a little and we may just be at a 300% daily driver nozzle

Agreed. But I think those nozzles will require some solid HPO volume along with the tuning. Those nozzles are going to empty the injector fast. I think those nozzles will find the limit on some of the pumps out there.

Powerstroke Cowboy · Sep 14, 2011

Forget the 300% nozzles. If I go bigger then 200%. It will be jumping up to the 400& nozzles.

Just saying......

lincolnlocker · Sep 14, 2011

since we are on injectors now and the cc to hp ratio. can anyone tell me why mine is the way it is? my truck is in my sig. i need to get it to the strip to verify but on beans dyno its still darn near 50 hp more than a truck with the same mods.