Test mule build

[Wayne]

If it is the one with the aluminum lid, it can be upgraded. The elbow I am using was originally designed to fit that box. It just needs to be reduced to fit the non- "high-power" compounds, and you also need a larger filter, and to remove the inner fender scoop to allow room for the added filter length. I believe Jeff @ spartan already did this. That way, you get to keep your heat shield.

 

[04hdfatboy]

So is it worth upgrading my s&b if i run stock turbos?

 

[BBottoms]

If it is the one with the aluminum lid, it can be upgraded. The elbow I am using was originally designed to fit that box. It just needs to be reduced to fit the non- "high-power" compounds, and you also need a larger filter, and to remove the inner fender scoop to allow room for the added filter length. I believe Jeff @ spartan already did this. That way, you get to keep your heat shield.

Do you all sell the parts to do this? I like the results, but I don't know if I want to drop the coin on the No Limit, especially if I can upgrade my AFE for less.

 

[Wayne]

I'm sure we can put together a kit.

The S&B would be worth upgrading if the ID is less than 65 mm on the inlet pipe. I haven't measured though. It doesn't allow for a big filter like the AFE stage II does, so it will never have the potential of the AFE setup. I believe Mike had good luck on stock fuel, and high power compounds (with the larger elbow) with the S&B though, which is why Erik & I started with that. We simply couldn't get it to flow enough air, or fit a big enough filter once it had larger than stock injectors, hence the birth of the intake I'm running now.

 

[BBottoms]

I'm sure we can put together a kit.

PM Sent :thumbsup:

 

[Wayne]

For anyone interested in upgrading their intake, we have several options including the No Limit, and upgrading the AFE Stage II intake. I apologize for the redundant info in the link, but want to make the purpose of the intake upgrading clear to anyone not following my build. Follow this link if interested:

http://powerstrokearmy.com/forums/showthread.php?p=600937#post600937

Please help keep discussion here to non-sales related. Thanks.

 

[Erikclaw]

i think the uncorrected numbers are so drastic due to the efficiency of the atmo turbo once it was breathing well. i talked to my partner about it a bit and he said he has seen the same thing that wayne saw tonight. restriction keeps the turbo from pulling in the minder , unleash the restriction and it builds boost and starts pulling in the minder. crazy physics.

I would have never thought about it that way, but it makes sense.

Wayne,
That was an interesting afternoon cutting two different intakes up, trying to make one that flowed until you gave me the one I ran.

 

[Wayne]

Oh, yeah. I remember it, but not in a good way. Isn't that the same day we swapped the EGT sensor that wouldn't come out just before you left, only to find out it was the EBP sensor that failed?

 

[Wayne]

So.... between some guy on a cell phone cutting me off, and a small episode of road rage this morning I pulled the filter minder ALL the way in. The filter is as reasonably clean as it's getting as I did a very thorough wash & re-oil about 1000 miles ago. It's got a couple dents & what-not in it, but hope a new element is the cure. The truck hardly hazes at all on the top end though, even with 60 hp nozzles, so it's definitely in the right direction.

 

[BBottoms]

Makes me curious what a dyno run with no filter at all would show. I know your engine has shiny new guts though so you probably don't want to do that.:badidea:

 

[Erikclaw]

Oh, yeah. I remember it, but not in a good way. Isn't that the same day we swapped the EGT sensor that wouldn't come out just before you left, only to find out it was the EBP sensor that failed?

Yup, drove all the way to Vegas for the sensor and they didn't have one either. Couldn't get one til I got to Sunrise Ford in So Cal and changed it in the parking lot then went and put it on the dyno.

 

[Erikclaw]

Makes me curious what a dyno run with no filter at all would show. I know your engine has shiny new guts though so you probably don't want to do that.:badidea:

I did a dyno pull with no filter and still pulled in the filter minder. Mike saw it too.

 

[Wayne]

To anyone worried about the filter minder being pulled in, you can relax. With the changes made below, I can't get the minder to move at all. The cleanliness of the filter was the problem despite my best efforts to clean, and straighten out the element. This morning I installed the "AFE stage Elite" CAI, which takes a standard AFE stage II kit, P/N 54-11262, and upgrades to a larger filter, (same as my filter I just pulled off, the No Limit kit, and 6.0 stage 2 AFE kit P/N 54-11022) then adds the big intake elbow & other necessary hardware. Here's a pic of the kit installed in my truck:

To validate the kit, and as part of the tests I do with each turbo swap, I did a couple 0-100 mph full throttle passes up a hill (on-ramp :lookaround to see what the filter minder would do. With the new filter element (same as before, just new) I couldn't get the minder to move at all. As Erik pointed out, with his exact intake I have been running, his truck pulled the minder in all the way even without a filter, so it could have been partially caused by poor minder placement. I don't know for sure, but at some point I'll put that one back on, and try it with the new filter.

It's definitely running stronger, (as opposed to using the crappy AFE elbow) as I picked up 3 mph in my recording window, and the atmospheric turbo boost hits 44 psi now without a trailer. This follows what I've seen on the dyno, picking up 4-5 psi more than before on the atmo. I don't foresee any need to upgrade my intake as long as I have stock housing turbos, but if the need arises, I'll have to ditch my heat shield, and switch back to the No Limit style unit, and put the largest custom filter I can fit on there, unless I just go all the way, and run the battery relocating "big chill" intake.

Who knows? I'll probably just do that as my spring/summer plans call for a 66/88 set of 'custom' "raw power" compounds with some 110 hp nozzles.

 

[powerstroked08]

I'll probably just do that as my spring/summer plans call for a 66/88 set of 'custom' "raw power" compounds with some 110 hp nozzles.

I really wish i was able to "test" stuff out on my truck for work like this and then beat on it! I have to admit i'm a bit jealous.

Does that filter have the cone going inside the front of the filter on the upgraded filter that your running now?

 

[Erikclaw]

I am interested in seeing how the 66/88 performs compared to a 62/88 that I was thinking of doing before being talked out of it. LOL

 

[Wayne]

I really wish i was able to "test" stuff out on my truck for work like this and then beat on it! I have to admit i'm a bit jealous.

Does that filter have the cone going inside the front of the filter on the upgraded filter that your running now?

Yes, it has the inverted end. FWIW, with the time I've spent swapping, and testing turbos & stuff, I would be way ahead financially if I would've been working, earning more money, & just bought the parts instead. In the end, I only get to keep the last setup I test, so before you get too jealous, think about all the time, wear, and tear involved, let alone all the stuff I had to buy to make it live.

FWIW, I've probably done turbo changes on my truck more than 20 times. I quit counting, but the time and parts sure add up. R&D gets real expensive, but I'd rather go this route anyway because the info we're gathering is very valuable to development of product, & to the end customer. Just think of what was involved when I tested a stage 1 cam. That's a long way to tear down an engine, just to install a cam, and test with no other performance mods allowed.

I gotta tell you Erik, I'm pretty excited too for when I make it to that point in testing. I'm sure it'll run great, but it'll never run as strong as the setup in the works for you. Oh, yeah. You should also know, the 110 nozzles you traded in for larger ones are the ones going in mine. LOL

 

[powerstroked08]

Oh i can only imagine the amount of time you have in this at this point! But the testing is what i would like not the constantly tearing it apart and putting it back together. I just like to make my truck run better, that would be the fun part for me(and beating on it)!

 

[Wayne]

My heavy foot has put my rear tires over the edge, and into the wear bars. Luckily the brown santa brought a present to my house yesterday.

Unfortunately since they're 38's, I can't be putting them on in the middle of VGT testing, or the remaining tests will be skewed. I'll have to rotate my scabs to make them last a few more weeks. After that, I'll be re-gearing to 4.56's at the same time as I install the tires, then on to 110 hp nozzles, ported intake manifold, then drop-in 76 if all goes according to plan. Not to get the cart too far ahead of the horse, but after the 76 testing, it looks like I won't be needing nitrous to be pushing the limits of my stock rods with the final set of compounds

 

[smokinstroker]

Wayne how will your 76 tests relate to us guys wanting to try that with the factory high pressure? Or does the nozzle size really have nothing to do with the effectiveness of that upgrade?

I guess what I'm trying to ask is, depending on your findings with the 76 will we possibly be able to run that with much smaller nozzles or even stock nozzles and a heavy file?

 

[Wayne]

It's only speculation at this point, but we will likely only offer it in a package deal with a larger VGT (59 mm), and an optional intake kit. With that big of a jump from stock, it would really be counter-productive to run it with a 53 mm VGT, and a discredit to the turbo's capabilities. It SHOULD run great on aggressive programming and stock fuel. Time and data will tell how we ultimately offer it though.