Unlimited vs Swamps

[Gearhead]

So Matt are you saying YOU can not tune a set of 200% with say a 38r 1.15 to not smoke or over heat at 1600rpm? oke: you left that one so wide open I couldn't resist. You know I love your tuning and advice. LOL. But seriously I think you might be selling your abilities short even when all I have to go off is a 10min run with my current setup.

I'm going bigger nozzles on my daily driver now that i have the ported heads and cam, maybe i'll try some 200s and just see for myself.

 

[TARM]

Mine was virtually smokeless in that short drive and that was just the first base tune. I will know more this coming week as I should have a fuel pump waiting for me when I get home.

What stage cam did you put in?

 

[Gearhead]

Mine was virtually smokeless in that short drive and that was just the first base tune. I will know more this coming week as I should have a fuel pump waiting for me when I get home.

What stage cam did you put in?

the 1, the 2 loses some torque below 5psi of boost and below 1700 rpms. This is my street truck that i'm trying to get the mileage maxamized on.

 

[Suns_PSD]

Somebody show me proof that a 200 percent nozzle can tool around at 1600 RPMs with a trailer and not emit a bit of smoke while staying cool.

At 1600 RPM w/ a heavy trailer and 200%ers and smoke free and cool you would definitely need one of the following:

1) a tight little turbo, aka 38r
2) compounds, aka Charles
3) or a ProCharger

Otherwise it just isn't going to happen. Most people that run 200%ers run an appropriately sized turbo that isn't going to work fantasticaly at only 1600RPM. I agree w/ Matt completely.

But unless your coasting downhill who tows heavy at 1600 RPM anyways?

 

[CurtisF]

Pocket is running 250/200's and 38r and is reporting low temps and very little if any smoke. He went out of town pulling a small trailer and should be back soon. I've been anxiously awaiting his report.

Yeah, I'm back in town.

Before I left town I finally had my fueling dialed in. Then I went full retard and accidently deleted said map. I was pissed, and had to scramble at the last minute to throw some tunes on the chip right before leaving town. So right now I'm rebuilding my fueling maps. Gotta get it dialed back in. Maybe this time I'll make backups... :doh:

Anyway, 250/200's right now run much cooler than stock sticks, and with very little smoke. Since I'm running PMR's I'm keeping the fueling dialed way back. I haven't even had a chance to get on the dyno with them yet. Right now I'm probably running about 300'ish HP max... according to the butt-o-meter. Won't go above that until I get some dyno time. Goal is to limit to about 450hp or so.

But yeah, I prefer these injectors way more than stockers. The 200% nozzles are outstanding for daily driving and towing. EGT's have not been a problem at all, neither has the smoke.

BTW, pulling a TT in 50+ mph headwind sucks. I don't care what injectors you run, fuel mileage will go right out the window. I hate paying for $4/gallon diesel when I'm getting 10 MPG's.

If I remember right he did some testing on the dyno, but didn't get a chance to try for a high HP run? I'd be interested to see what he can squeeze out of it.

That was with stock injectors. Problem was the dyno wasn't calibrated correctly, so I never got an accurate result.

 

[CurtisF]

I was hoping for a video of said challenge.

Maybe when I get this fueling dialed back in correctly I can shoot some videos.

 

[Charles]

Maybe when I get this fueling dialed back in correctly I can shoot some videos.

Kind of like the one with Mike-O passing his emissions test at 600rwhp with 400% nozzles?

lol.


Obviously some of us are having a hard time understanding these people talking about smoking all the time on a little 200 after actively working to tune them to run cleanly.

It's like me trying to understand these people that can't get the 1.15 turbine housing to work on the 38R.

What planet are we all on?


Btw, your account of the 200's is spot-on to what I saw.

 

[Derek@Vision Diesel]

I need someone to live tune my 200%'s, sounds like the opportunities are endless... well unless i want to hit 600hp hah

 

[CSIPSD]

I love my 250/200's... Only issues I have are when above 4500' or so. Just plain sucks here at 7500' but I think that is more turbo related then anything.

And Curtis, I got about 10mpg pulling my trailer here from Bend... Of course running 75-80MPH does not help any.

To be clear that is not soot on the trailer but ice and snow... went thru a dandy right outside of Cortez, CO...

 

[Dieselfever]

At 1600 RPM w/ a heavy trailer and 200%ers and smoke free and cool you would definitely need one of the following:

1) a tight little turbo, aka 38r
2) compounds, aka Charles
3) or a ProCharger

Otherwise it just isn't going to happen. Most people that run 200%ers run an appropriately sized turbo that isn't going to work fantasticaly at only 1600RPM. I agree w/ Matt completely.

But unless your coasting downhill who tows heavy at 1600 RPM anyways?

No part of the proposition said anything about peak hp did it?

-Michael

 

[TARM]

Kind of like the one with Mike-O passing his emissions test at 600rwhp with 400% nozzles?

lol.


Obviously some of us are having a hard time understanding these people talking about smoking all the time on a little 200 after actively working to tune them to run cleanly.

It's like me trying to understand these people that can't get the 1.15 turbine housing to work on the 38R.

What planet are we all on?


Btw, your account of the 200's is spot-on to what I saw.

I think in part there is something you have noted before at the end of that old smack down thread on larger nozzles. The amount of tweaking and adjusting of tuning it takes or at least has in the past taken. How many revisions of tunes did you have before you had things dialed in? This is also done in the truck live not mailed. I also think it will take, as was also mentioned, some time for very good base tunes to be formulated for the various combos. It was only in the last maybe year that 200% were really considered widely as DD and not comp size nozzles. I know they were already being used but the main stream at least what I saw still saw them as rather large.


I know Matt has spent some solid time now tuning a number 200% running gt42 size turbos. Sun PSD I think is one he live tuned. I think it was from that work my tunes came from and honestly when I started it up and loaded those tunes the truck idled like stock. The short drive I had there was no smoke issues at all. Hopefully we will see more and more refinement of the base tunes as more and more people are running these for general use truck setups.


I can't comment either way on the effects to egt, mpg, and smoke compared tosay 100% as I have not direct experience comparing them on the same setup. I would think the 100% being smaller holes would offer better injection quailty and that would be seen as better mpg and less smoke. But then maybe in turbo setups like this those differences do not have any tangable effect that adjustments in tuning can not workout. I just don't know but then there is proof the big nozzles are doing it.

What I do know is I am super happy I choose 200% and not the 100% I had originally thought of getting a year ago. In fact I almost wonder if 400%, with the mods now avaibale for them, would not have even been better for my goal. Not for more max fuel but to carry the same fuel I can now get at 2-2.2ms stretched out to say 1.4-1.6 ms. Seeing a number of these 400% idle and tool about town like yours Mike's and a few others, some with single turbos about my size, I realize with some extra time in tuning I would likely have been happy. As I have no big towing aspirations I am not sure there would be a signigficant trade off for me.

 

[Derek@Vision Diesel]

I think in part there is something you have noted before at the end of that old smack down thread on larger nozzles. The amount of tweaking and adjusting of tuning it takes or at least has in the past taken. How many revisions of tunes did you have before you had things dialed in? This is also done in the truck live not mailed. I also think it will take, as was also mentioned, some time for very good base tunes to be formulated for the various combos. It was only in the last maybe year that 200% were really considered widely as DD and not comp size nozzles. I know they were already being used but the main stream at least what I saw still saw them as rather large.


I know Matt has spent some solid time now tuning a number 200% running gt42 size turbos. Sun PSD I think is one he live tuned. I think it was from that work my tunes came from and honestly when I started it up and loaded those tunes the truck idled like stock. The short drive I had there was no smoke issues at all. Hopefully we will see more and more refinement of the base tunes as more and more people are running these for general use truck setups.


I can't comment either way on the effects to egt, mpg, and smoke compared tosay 100% as I have not direct experience comparing them on the same setup. I would think the 100% being smaller holes would offer better injection quailty and that would be seen as better mpg and less smoke. But then maybe in turbo setups like this those differences do not have any tangable effect that adjustments in tuning can not workout. I just don't know but then there is proof the big nozzles are doing it.

What I do know is I am super happy I choose 200% and not the 100% I had originally thought of getting a year ago. In fact I almost wonder if 400%, with the mods now avaibale for them, would not have even been better for my goal. Not for more max fuel but to carry the same fuel I can now get at 2-2.2ms stretched out to say 1.4-1.6 ms. Seeing a number of these 400% idle and tool about town like yours Mike's and a few others, some with single turbos about my size, I realize with some extra time in tuning I would likely have been happy. As I have no big towing aspirations I am not sure there would be a signigficant trade off for me.

After driving with these 250/200s i sort of am kicking myself for not going larger, i mean why not have it there? I think its obvious if the 200% was just this last year brought up as a DD nozzle that a 400% will be not far behind. In a year you wont be **** unless youve got 350+cc of fuel and bigger than a 200%

 

[CSIPSD]

LOL... I am quite happy at 250/200... If I want to go faster then that, I'll just get a 6.4...

 

[Suns_PSD]

I know Matt has spent some solid time now tuning a number 200% running gt42 size turbos. Sun PSD I think is one he live tuned. I think it was from that work my tunes came from and honestly when I started it up and loaded those tunes the truck idled like stock. The short drive I had there was no smoke issues at all.

I'm really glad that you were able to benefit from those 2x times that Matt and I spent custom tuning my rig. He did a great job. Over half a dozen sets of injectors, dozens of programs from every programmer out there, and until now I have never been as satisfied w/ my truck as I am now w/ big Hybrids on 200s & GearHead Tuning.

If my turbo was just a tad tighter, Ford could have sold my current set up as an ultimate OEM set-up.

 

[TARM]

Basically i have the turbo you are speaking of. With the smaller wheel it should be tighter and with the custom work on the billet wheel hopefully will flow on top like yours.

I was very pleasantly surprised with the tunes even though Matt had said it should be close. I am running the dual hpops and i know they tend to take a couple tweaks to get them smooth @ idle. So yes it was the work he did with you on your truck that made a difference. First start up was on the old split shot tunes and the thing loped and split like a huge big block gaser with a huge cam which i fully expected of course. But what I did not expect was the stock dle quailty when I installed Matts tunes. This coming from stock injectors and it was smooth eeven though it still obviously had air in the system and took a few seconds of cranking to fire up. On that short drive I never jumped on thenturbo at all but I also had no smoke at all putting around even with a bit of throttle. Once I get hole and install the new fuel pump I look forward to seeing if any adjustments are needed once i can spool it up thru the gears.

I know you went thru quite a bit to get your tunes were you wanted them. Glad when you went to Matt he was able to dial it in.

 

[Big Bore]

BTW, pulling a TT in 50+ mph headwind sucks. I don't care what injectors you run, fuel mileage will go right out the window. I hate paying for $4/gallon diesel when I'm getting 10 MPG's.

.

Dude I cant even imagine. On the way to Texas today our brand new high mileage streamlined ricer car lost about 10mpg bucking a headwind with the AC set to Stun. But thats still 30mpgLOL. Last time I did this was with the truck pulling a trailer, if it hadnt been for your tunes I probably would have offed myself.

Someone turn off the wind now, k thanks.

 

[Charles]

The 200's are the best nozzles out there. The only reason I pulled them was the desire to make more power.

But the 200's are the sweetest little nozzles on earth for a 7.3. Perfect balance of rate vs atomization. You can tune them in to be so freakin crisp and clean that it's retarded.

My last programs I wrote on the 200's drove like a BBC with a blower. And I was crystal clean out the tailpipe at ~600rwhp. I wrote a tow program that I swear made 400rwhp at 1000 to 1100 degrees WOT for eternity.

I've got nothing but love for that nozzle. It's one of those components that I feel bad about removing, because they worked so well.

 

[Gearhead]

Tell me how much you like your 200% on a 20 degree day. Don't park the tailpipe next to a campfire. That's why they aren't for everyone. I have no issues tuning them, but like I said there are little things they do that some people just can't deal with.

 

[Charles]

Tell me how much you like your 200% on a 20 degree day. Don't park the tailpipe next to a campfire. That's why they aren't for everyone. I have no issues tuning them, but like I said there are little things they do that some people just can't deal with.

I've never run them on a stock compression engine. But at ~15:1 it still didn't bother me in the least, and didn't smoke ONE BIT worse than my 30% EH nozzles... On a 17.5:1 engine I doubt I could not find a happy medium on timing/icp that wouldn't contain them.

But aside from all that.... our bone stock T-800 KW with a 3406 Cat makes what comes out of my truck on a 20 degree day look like a zippo up next to a 3 state forest fire.

Some people simply don't need to be driving performance diesels.

 

[Gearhead]

I've never run them on a stock compression engine. But at ~15:1 it still didn't bother me in the least, and didn't smoke ONE BIT worse than my 30% EH nozzles... On a 17.5:1 engine I doubt I could not find a happy medium on timing/icp that wouldn't contain them.

But aside from all that.... our bone stock T-800 KW with a 3406 Cat makes what comes out of my truck on a 20 degree day look like a zippo up next to a 3 state forest fire.

Some people simply don't need to be driving performance diesels.

Some people have to start up in a closed garage or parking garage and can't have that happening to them.

I agree with you and will more than likely be making the switch myself eventually. But there are some things that aren't in the software that need to be unlocked to compensate for the white smoke on a cold day that just aren't in the software right now. I know it has to be in there but the ICP compensator for EOT doesn't look to be right and is maxed out from what I can tell.