Unlimited vs Swamps

[Charles]

Tuning has come a long way. Just because you have 400cc of fuel available doesn't mean you have to call for it all. Same reason that the factory injectors have any room for a power increase with just a chip.

This is apparently lost on people choosing to run tiny nozzles because they have a drop in turbo...

Even though it's the tiny nozzles that make their power goal + smoke emissions target mutually exclusive.

 

[Big Bore]

... tiny nozzles because they have a drop in turbo...

Can you elaborate on what you consider tiny? I know my friends 200% nozzles are running cooler while towing than my 30% nozzles and not smoke or haze.

 

[Charles]

Can you elaborate on what you consider tiny? I know my friends 200% nozzles are running cooler while towing than my 30% nozzles and not smoke or haze.

Anything sub 100% EDM is tiny. I fought a set of 30%'s back in the day when nozzle selection was non-existent and never had it so easy as when I replaced them with 200's. The same power came so effortlessly, with such little smoke/heat in comparison. Plus they picked up 50 to 60rwhp.

 

[Tom S]

Can you elaborate on what you consider tiny? I know my friends 200% nozzles are running cooler while towing than my 30% nozzles and not smoke or haze.

I would like to here more on this. Was this at altitude and what was the setup?

 

[Big Bore]

I would like to here more on this. Was this at altitude and what was the setup?

Denver altitude, 38r, his own tunes.

 

[Tom S]

OK, I know who then. He has Terminators as I recall.

 

[Big Bore]

OK, I know who then. He has Terminators as I recall.

Nope, not anymore, he gave up. LOL

 

[Dustin F2504x4]

After reading all this I am thinking about rolling the dice on my pmrs, and putting some 200% nozzles on my 200cc injectors. I am ready to get an upgrade in power.

 

[TARM]

Then if a person already plans to run big oil and things like head studs and fuel system is there really any reason to even mess with hybrid injectors with nozzles any smaller than 200%

That is what I am hearing in a round about manner. You have what Charles and Jason have said here and in that long thread in smack on psnabout nozzles. Then you have Dave@Swamps stating if people had studs that would be his nozzle of choice. It seems you can get good mpg and runs cooler egts, makes more power, great throttle response, still good atomization ect... Seems like not many downsides here. The one hang u for a long tile was tuning and now that seems to be dialed in at least by a few tuners so its out there even outside live tuning.

 

[V-Ref]

Then if a person already plans to run big oil and things like head studs and fuel system is there really any reason to even mess with hybrid injectors with nozzles any smaller than 200%

That is what I am hearing in a round about manner. You have what Charles and Jason have said here and in that long thread in smack on psnabout nozzles. Then you have Dave@Swamps stating if people had studs that would be his nozzle of choice. It seems you can get good mpg and runs cooler egts, makes more power, great throttle response, still good atomization ect... Seems like not many downsides here. The one hang u for a long tile was tuning and now that seems to be dialed in at least by a few tuners so its out there even outside live tuning.

:whs: Is 200% considered by the sages the new "minimum" nozzle provided the supporting mods are there to support the power potential of the injectors?

 

[Gearhead]

Somebody show me proof that a 200 percent nozzle can tool around at 1600 RPMs with a trailer and not emit a bit of smoke while staying cool.

 

[Derek@Vision Diesel]

1600 is a bit low... I dont think i can lay into it at 1600 with a trailer without it clouding and ive got tunes from 3 different guys.

But then again with a trailer its just going to shift down if you try accelerating anyway

 

[Gearhead]

1600 is a bit low... I dont think i can lay into it at 1600 with a trailer without it clouding and ive got tunes from 3 different guys.

But then again with a trailer its just going to shift down if you try accelerating anyway

What turbo?

 

[Derek@Vision Diesel]

What turbo?

hx55 with a 19cm housing. Internally wastegated.

Its nothing fancy, but it does spool awesome and clean up on the top end.

 

[Big Bore]

Pocket is running 250/200's and 38r and is reporting low temps and very little if any smoke. He went out of town pulling a small trailer and should be back soon. I've been anxiously awaiting his report.

 

[Fordcowboy]

Pocket is running 250/200's and 38r and is reporting low temps and very little if any smoke. He went out of town pulling a small trailer and should be back soon. I've been anxiously awaiting his report.

If I remember right he did some testing on the dyno, but didn't get a chance to try for a high HP run? I'd be interested to see what he can squeeze out of it.

 

[Charles]

Somebody show me proof that a 200 percent nozzle can tool around at 1600 RPMs with a trailer and not emit a bit of smoke while staying cool.

Are you kidding? Did you want it to make 15 or 16rwhp at WOT?


Obviously that's an extreme.... but it's true. You can tune the truck so that it makes 1rwhp if you want. I can tool around at 1600rpm with a trailer and 400% nozzles and not be smoking or running hot either.

Hell, when I was running the 200's on my old setup 1600rpm was good for ~70lbs of boost, lol. Pulling a trailer it was input shafts, planetaries and u-joints I was worried about at 1600rpm. Not smoke or heat.


To see for yourself, max your available PW at ~1.6ms and in the 1600rpm range have ICP max at ~2500psi WOT. Run ~20 to 25* of timing in this same range, ramping up to ~30 or so with ICP at 3000 by 3000rpm.

I dare you to have a smoke/heat problem on 200's.


You have GOT to get off it on the tiny nozzles. Forget that sh*t. It's a massive waste of time and effort.



Or don't. Whatever...


If I could get an injector to keep up with a 0.020" 7 holer..... that's EXACTLY what I'd be running.

 

[Tom S]

I was hoping for a video of said challenge.

 

[Gearhead]

Are you kidding? Did you want it to make 15 or 16rwhp at WOT?


Obviously that's an extreme.... but it's true. You can tune the truck so that it makes 1rwhp if you want. I can tool around at 1600rpm with a trailer and 400% nozzles and not be smoking or running hot either.

Hell, when I was running the 200's on my old setup 1600rpm was good for ~70lbs of boost, lol. Pulling a trailer it was input shafts, planetaries and u-joints I was worried about at 1600rpm. Not smoke or heat.


To see for yourself, max your available PW at ~1.6ms and in the 1600rpm range have ICP max at ~2500psi WOT. Run ~20 to 25* of timing in this same range, ramping up to ~30 or so with ICP at 3000 by 3000rpm.

I dare you to have a smoke/heat problem on 200's.


You have GOT to get off it on the tiny nozzles. Forget that sh*t. It's a massive waste of time and effort.



Or don't. Whatever...


If I could get an injector to keep up with a 0.020" 7 holer..... that's EXACTLY what I'd be running.

Call it what you want, but there are tradeoffs wtih 200% on the street, and although the 200s have definite advantages, there are drawbacks that some don't care about and some do.

 

[TARM]

So Matt are you saying YOU can not tune a set of 200% with say a 38r 1.15 to not smoke or over heat at 1600rpm? oke: you left that one so wide open I couldn't resist. You know I love your tuning and advice. LOL. But seriously I think you might be selling your abilities short even when all I have to go off is a 10min run with my current setup.