Hotrodtractor
Moderator
Looking real good.
450/400's
- Thread starter 907DAVE
- Start date
Dieselboy.
New member
Dave, I wish mine idle cold that clean.
Are you tuning it ?
Are you tuning it ?
Curtis@Vision Diesel
New member
Yes he is. I believe he got the idle down in two try's. Pretty impressive I will say for that caliber of injector.
That truck is nice.Dave. Your idle is great, imo. Im happy with my "stg II" injs compared to.stock. I.got.them for.nothing literally but Im.ready for bigger. Im thinking 300/200's. Or a 250/200 anyway. Im not interested in getting into dual hpops and all that. Srp 1.1 or adrenaline.
Dave you already know what I think of what you accomplished with your tuning and setup. The videos really show how smooth you have gotten things with taking the time to research and talk to others and make changes to see how it effects things. Very nice. I bet you will be able to cut back at least a portion of your start up .... well ...lets call it a puff of smoke LOL
I did consider just going right up to 400% nozzles. But with lots of thought, conversation, and reading weighing what the benefits would be I stuck with only going to 200% but with more then enough volume should I want to jump up to 400% and a set of compounds. I think that is the ideal use for 400% that will primarily be used on the street unless strictly looking to keep the power curve going up over 4K. The latter idea I find enticing as well.
I did consider just going right up to 400% nozzles. But with lots of thought, conversation, and reading weighing what the benefits would be I stuck with only going to 200% but with more then enough volume should I want to jump up to 400% and a set of compounds. I think that is the ideal use for 400% that will primarily be used on the street unless strictly looking to keep the power curve going up over 4K. The latter idea I find enticing as well.
Thanks guys!
The reason I started this thread was to show that there is no reason you cannot run a large injector and still use the truck for daily use. Since this truck has been put together I have been using it for everything that a truck should be used for. I have not towed heavy with it yet because there has not been a need, plus I pulled a few leafs from the rear spring pack so it probably would sag pretty hard.
The truck is very crispy and responsive, and all around blast to drive. It still has fantastic throttle response, a pedal that can be driven down bumpy roads without causing a " 1hz head bang" and the cruise control is still completely functional.
Plus, with another tuner revision or two I think the truck can be labeled "HRT approved squeaky clean".
The reason I started this thread was to show that there is no reason you cannot run a large injector and still use the truck for daily use. Since this truck has been put together I have been using it for everything that a truck should be used for. I have not towed heavy with it yet because there has not been a need, plus I pulled a few leafs from the rear spring pack so it probably would sag pretty hard.
The truck is very crispy and responsive, and all around blast to drive. It still has fantastic throttle response, a pedal that can be driven down bumpy roads without causing a " 1hz head bang" and the cruise control is still completely functional.
Plus, with another tuner revision or two I think the truck can be labeled "HRT approved squeaky clean".
What turbos are you running: Comp/turbine wheel specs for each and if you know the turbine housings A/Rs?
Have you ever put it on a dyno or taken down a track? Just trying to get a feel on the power you are at. What is your max PW?
Have you ever put it on a dyno or taken down a track? Just trying to get a feel on the power you are at. What is your max PW?
Derek@Vision Diesel
New member
Dave and dyno/track don't mix. He just likes to build the truck up about as high as he possibly can, then daily drive it and laugh at all of us that can't tune like him!
Diezel Dawg
New member
His motor runs so smooth, have ridden in it when it was in the crew cab. He is running Bigrs twins from Barney
Sent from my EVO 3D on the East Side
TN turbos. I have all the spec's on them at work, but the secondary is a 66mm inducer with a 1.0 exh, primary is a 88mm with 1.27.
No dyno or track times, mainly because both are almost 400 miles away. I can tell you I am clearing 1.9ms up really well, next file is using a bit more.
Haha, I dont need no stinkin track times to know how my sh!t runs!!
Thanks Ken, but it pulls a bit harder in the little truck.
Dieselboy.
New member
Dave, we want a cold 450/400 start in -40 oke: LOL
oke: LOL
Big Bore
Active member
I should have one for you in a few months.
Hey don't even start talking like that, we just got an 80+ deg day up here and I'm trying to forget it will be over soon lol.:slap:
Well it sounds like at that lb/min rate the split is about perfect. The Manifold is running a 2:1 and with the Atmo hitting 2.7. Nice. Be interesting when you start playing with it and shifting PRs and raising total boost.
Do you think the 75mm is going to flow enough when you start to try wanting to flow more lb/min from the comp side of things?
Do you think the 75mm is going to flow enough when you start to try wanting to flow more lb/min from the comp side of things?
Probably not. It runs a perfect 1:1 up to about 25, which is where it stops right now. Not really sure what its going to do when I put more fuel and some drugs to it.
I am pretty happy with everything as is for a DD setup, but I am sure its not the best for an all out HP setup.
Now if only I can figure out WTF is going on with the TN gate spring ratings. I switched that secondary spring down to an 8 "psi" spring and it made zero difference on boost/ BP readings.
I am pretty happy with everything as is for a DD setup, but I am sure its not the best for an all out HP setup.
Now if only I can figure out WTF is going on with the TN gate spring ratings. I switched that secondary spring down to an 8 "psi" spring and it made zero difference on boost/ BP readings.
What size are your gates?
Original config:
66mm with a 1.0 housing 15lb spring
88mm with a 1.27 housing 15lb spring
66 mm WG output into 88mm turbine.
Now here is what I am coming up with for boost and PR numbers based on the info you have provided in this thread. I think your are gating way too much pressure over to the Atmo turbo.
Here check out my math in case I am doing something wrong. Now for the actual boost made by each turbo I using standard atmosphere compressor to keep everything simple as well. But I am also using to show how much boost the manifold compressor using the PR with a normal atmosphere pressure at the inlet instead of the compressed air from the Atmo. as that IMO gives a better showing of the work its actually doing like it would as a single.
I am adding all this stuff so others can follow that may not know this stuff. But more importantly to make sure I am not making a or multiple bone head mistakes.
To get PR break down for total and for each turbo:
Basic Formula for Pressure Ratio (boost +14.7)/14.7=PR (Not accounting for altitude changes or filter restriction)
Formula for Pressure Ratio for each Compressor in a Compound Setup: In compounds the turbos individual PRs are multiplied together to get total PR. So if you have the total you divide it by either one comp individual PRs. The Atmosphere Compressor is the easy one to compute along with the total combined PR. So The total PR divided by Atmosphere gives use what the Manifold Comp PR is. With that we can use the standard PR formula to see what it would be making if inlet was standard atmosphere pressure. This is helpful IMO as most people are use to looking at compressor perf by boost as opposed to PR.
Total Manifold Boost: 50psi PR 4.4:1
88mm Boost: 25psi PR 2.7:1
66mm Boost: 9.2 PSI PR 1.63
Inlet boost psi+ standard atmosphere psi multiplied by pressure ratio minus standard atmosphere psi equals total boost.
[(25+14.7)*1.63]-14.7=50.1 psi total boost
Does this look correct to you as well? Everything seems to mesh.
My inexperienced opinion is, I think you have the 66mm not doing enough. The 15psi spring is not much when you consider where the turbo's map shows where it really starts to flow well. My guess is its not getting enough flow to allow the comp to get to its best efficiency islands and it staying to far to the left and bottom of the map as well. If it had more drive energy it would allow the ratio to hit closer to a 1:1 ratio as the comp would be in a more efficient area of its map. Currently if you factor a 15lb spring its 1.5:1 D:B Actually it may be a bit more as that is just cracking open the WG I do not know. Gate size could have an effect. I would go ahead and add boost to both sides with the top regulated of course. Pressure from both sides will help stabilize the valve as I understand it. Move the PR into the 2.0 range.
You switched the 88mm WG spring from 15lb down 8lb
The result was: No drop in 88mm boost pressure.
I could be wrong but to me if you make a spring change to a lower spring and boost for the atmosphere Compressor does not drop this means you are already at the limit of your waste gate or something is not right. It may take a bit longer to reach the boost as its delaying the spool up but it would still reach it. Am I making sense or am I way off here?
What size are the two waste gates?
Just an FYI as I was digging thru it: I had done some calculations when I was working of how proper turbine flow to compressor flow. If you figure a 130 F inlet temp for a a given PSI to keep a certain weight/volume of air and then increase the air temp to say a exhaust outlet temp of 1600 F. It would take either 3.5 x the pressure to keep the same weight/volume or take 3.5x the vol to hold the same lb of air compared to the inlet. That's a lot of expanding energy flowing thru the turbine side of things.
Original config:
66mm with a 1.0 housing 15lb spring
88mm with a 1.27 housing 15lb spring
66 mm WG output into 88mm turbine.
Now here is what I am coming up with for boost and PR numbers based on the info you have provided in this thread. I think your are gating way too much pressure over to the Atmo turbo.
Here check out my math in case I am doing something wrong. Now for the actual boost made by each turbo I using standard atmosphere compressor to keep everything simple as well. But I am also using to show how much boost the manifold compressor using the PR with a normal atmosphere pressure at the inlet instead of the compressed air from the Atmo. as that IMO gives a better showing of the work its actually doing like it would as a single.
I am adding all this stuff so others can follow that may not know this stuff. But more importantly to make sure I am not making a or multiple bone head mistakes.
To get PR break down for total and for each turbo:
Basic Formula for Pressure Ratio (boost +14.7)/14.7=PR (Not accounting for altitude changes or filter restriction)
Formula for Pressure Ratio for each Compressor in a Compound Setup: In compounds the turbos individual PRs are multiplied together to get total PR. So if you have the total you divide it by either one comp individual PRs. The Atmosphere Compressor is the easy one to compute along with the total combined PR. So The total PR divided by Atmosphere gives use what the Manifold Comp PR is. With that we can use the standard PR formula to see what it would be making if inlet was standard atmosphere pressure. This is helpful IMO as most people are use to looking at compressor perf by boost as opposed to PR.
Total Manifold Boost: 50psi PR 4.4:1
88mm Boost: 25psi PR 2.7:1
66mm Boost: 9.2 PSI PR 1.63
Inlet boost psi+ standard atmosphere psi multiplied by pressure ratio minus standard atmosphere psi equals total boost.
[(25+14.7)*1.63]-14.7=50.1 psi total boost
Does this look correct to you as well? Everything seems to mesh.
My inexperienced opinion is, I think you have the 66mm not doing enough. The 15psi spring is not much when you consider where the turbo's map shows where it really starts to flow well. My guess is its not getting enough flow to allow the comp to get to its best efficiency islands and it staying to far to the left and bottom of the map as well. If it had more drive energy it would allow the ratio to hit closer to a 1:1 ratio as the comp would be in a more efficient area of its map. Currently if you factor a 15lb spring its 1.5:1 D:B Actually it may be a bit more as that is just cracking open the WG I do not know. Gate size could have an effect. I would go ahead and add boost to both sides with the top regulated of course. Pressure from both sides will help stabilize the valve as I understand it. Move the PR into the 2.0 range.
You switched the 88mm WG spring from 15lb down 8lb
The result was: No drop in 88mm boost pressure.
I could be wrong but to me if you make a spring change to a lower spring and boost for the atmosphere Compressor does not drop this means you are already at the limit of your waste gate or something is not right. It may take a bit longer to reach the boost as its delaying the spool up but it would still reach it. Am I making sense or am I way off here?
What size are the two waste gates?
Just an FYI as I was digging thru it: I had done some calculations when I was working of how proper turbine flow to compressor flow. If you figure a 130 F inlet temp for a a given PSI to keep a certain weight/volume of air and then increase the air temp to say a exhaust outlet temp of 1600 F. It would take either 3.5 x the pressure to keep the same weight/volume or take 3.5x the vol to hold the same lb of air compared to the inlet. That's a lot of expanding energy flowing thru the turbine side of things.
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