Happy to see that you newbies remember Zane.... LOL
My 2015 has an extended warranty, so not even slightly interested in Deleting....., besides....that's illegal...
It pulls my Weekend Warrior effortlessly, so it will remain stock.
600% nozzles???
- Thread starter elrodalexander73
- Start date
Happy to see that you newbies remember Zane.... LOL
My 2015 has an extended warranty, so not even slightly interested in Deleting....., besides....that's illegal...
It pulls my Weekend Warrior effortlessly, so it will remain stock.
Morgan@Midwest Diesel & Auto
New member
I think a few of us have been around I little longer than you think....
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Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
hucorey
Member
Its not illegal.Happy to see that you newbies remember Zane.... LOL
My 2015 has an extended warranty, so not even slightly interested in Deleting....., besides....that's illegal...
It pulls my Weekend Warrior effortlessly, so it will remain stock.
Only in the states that require it.
cbf9703
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That's what I was thinking.
Arisley
Moderator
Actually, be Federal Law, it is illegal to remove any part of the emission system.
hucorey
Member
For a business to remove it yes, but not personally.
FYI, most emergency vehicles, i.e. fire trucks and ambulances are emissions exempt in some states due to lawsuits of vehicle failures directly related to emission equipment failures.
Charles
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Is it just a cultural thing out west or something in the water that causes so many people to think they know so much about something because they wrote a check for a setup that someone else thought out?
Second nagging issue.... if you're somewhere between 2 and 3000hp on those 3 hundos then yeah, you're right there at the limit of a built 7.3 bottom end.
Otherwise, learn how to tune. If it stopped sounding like hammered ass at full power it wouldn't be at the limit of the engine assembly at less than half the power others have put through one. You're realistically probably at 1/3 the power the engine can hold Mr Big oil.
This is simply giving you a generous 800, and then realizing more than one 7.3 is between 2000 and 2500hp.
Last nagging issue.... if you put that rag on a DJ-248 uncorrected, you're balls and head would shrink faster than your inflated power output. Seems to be a cultural Kryptonite for your kind as well.
Gotta be the water, lol.
Second nagging issue.... if you're somewhere between 2 and 3000hp on those 3 hundos then yeah, you're right there at the limit of a built 7.3 bottom end.
Otherwise, learn how to tune. If it stopped sounding like hammered ass at full power it wouldn't be at the limit of the engine assembly at less than half the power others have put through one. You're realistically probably at 1/3 the power the engine can hold Mr Big oil.
This is simply giving you a generous 800, and then realizing more than one 7.3 is between 2000 and 2500hp.
Last nagging issue.... if you put that rag on a DJ-248 uncorrected, you're balls and head would shrink faster than your inflated power output. Seems to be a cultural Kryptonite for your kind as well.
Gotta be the water, lol.
Last edited:
elrodalexander73
Member
Anytime you tamper with a DPF, an EGR system, tune a truck, change PW and timing to the point where it will fail an opacity test it is believe it or not breaking a federal emmisons law.. I've been working with a guy up in Kentucky deleting DDEC 6 Series 60s and ISX's for about a year now, and how everything gets billed, you have to be very careful not to leave a paper trail. Oh just ask Bruce as PDI, he's paid millions in fines cause his smart self advertised on National radio and paid dearly. Nearly all of the advancements that have helped us make stupid power in the new engines are for the soul purpose of emissions advancement. Heads that have a port swirl like no other, common rail systems have gotten far better. Imma leak a sweet little secret that'll break all Ford guys hearts on here by the way, my uncle is Paul Hurley, if you call the Bosch engineering center in Novi Michigan and ask for him you'll get connected. He was responsible for the Development of the CP3 that was developed for the ISB and Duramax engines. A while back I asked him why International chose to opt from common rail in 2003. His response was this, "They didn't, they had proposed the idea of adapting the CP3 system which was in the works, we developed all the peices to make it possible, wasn't hard, submitted a bid, and weighed the engine, the problem was the 7.3 was too heavy with all of the emissions equipment in place at around 1275lbs. They scrapped the idea and developed the 6.0/VT365 literally overnight and used their own fuel system. It made good power, and held up to about 275hp and hardly failed under warranty. Fords choice to alter the design is what plagued them with dozens of warranty problems, we were glad to be away from that engine and it's problems."
All in all what this mean't was that the 7.3 was too heavy and in the truck industry where the ISB and T444E were head to head at the time, the engine that was lighter and a truck that could carry more payload is what really sells on the lot to large fleets. Freight on a truck is money no matter what end of story. The VT365 was built to fit a weight class and make the same power as an ISB and 6.6 IZUZU in the light-medium duty truck market. It was the consumer automotive world that had the true desire for the power output levels we have.. Just a little leaked info from a top bosch engineer lol...
All in all what this mean't was that the 7.3 was too heavy and in the truck industry where the ISB and T444E were head to head at the time, the engine that was lighter and a truck that could carry more payload is what really sells on the lot to large fleets. Freight on a truck is money no matter what end of story. The VT365 was built to fit a weight class and make the same power as an ISB and 6.6 IZUZU in the light-medium duty truck market. It was the consumer automotive world that had the true desire for the power output levels we have.. Just a little leaked info from a top bosch engineer lol...
Spatel23
Moderator
Smh
Lol
You aren't "leaking" anything most of us here don't already know.
Lol
You aren't "leaking" anything most of us here don't already know.
elrodalexander73
Member
Yeah but it's different coming from one of my relatives, who infact has been with Bosch for 25 years now, we sat at a Chinese restuarant on Miller Rd in Flint and discussed this because we got into a converstation about the powerlevels of todays diesel engines. I was shocked, last time I was home to visit family he showed me a few pictures of it on his computer of it all developed, cylinder heads cast for the injectors, no oil rails, oh what so many people would give to see it, completely different gear cover, lots of neat stuff. I wasn't allowed to have any of them, as it was protected info. But neat to see. So much happens that we never even know or see. I'm blessed to have such a neat person in my family.
Jason
New member
Bruce Mallison is at Pittsburgh Power..and he advertises via Kevin Rutherford on the road dog trucking channel on xm.
lincolnlocker
Well-known member
yeah, i said the same thing.. then sensor issues with the def system came up when i was on my way to a jobsite 3 days before i was heading home for the holidays..Happy to see that you newbies remember Zane.... LOL
My 2015 has an extended warranty, so not even slightly interested in Deleting....., besides....that's illegal...
It pulls my Weekend Warrior effortlessly, so it will remain stock.
yuppers...
lol.. your still alive.. thats good.. been a while...
live life full throttle
CATDiezel
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Wow. This thread.....
I sense the covetousness effect of a 7.3L owner busting on 6.7L happily DELETED OWNERS.
It's illegal to hunt whales in Oklahoma fwiw...
I sense the covetousness effect of a 7.3L owner busting on 6.7L happily DELETED OWNERS.
It's illegal to hunt whales in Oklahoma fwiw...
LOL! Only check I ever wrote out was for my new 6.7......silly hick from Georgia.
ointlaugh:Dyno numbers are so over rated........, the last truck I seen on a Dyno that sounded like a bag of hammers was a red regular cab Super Duty......from GA.:doh:
cbf9703
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LOL! Only check I ever wrote out was for my new 6.7......silly hick from Georgia.
Dyno numbers are so over rated........, the last truck I seen on a Dyno that sounded like a bag of hammers was a red regular cab Super Duty......from GA.:doh:
it's getting deep in here.
elrodalexander73
Member
Has anyone tried to piece together a 6.4 from the new Maxxforce 7 that uses the newer CGI block design?? Thats something maybe Morgan might be working on?? I don't know how much they actually changed, only got a few overview online classes through my company due to the fact we repair Maxxforces quite a bit.
Morgan@Midwest Diesel & Auto
New member
No idea, the last block I bought was still normal. Haven't broke one yet so I'm not 100% sure.
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Hotrodtractor
Moderator
I don't even know where to begin with this thread.....
1) The problem is not necessarily in the electronics, but it is a control problem none the less.
2) Just because someone advertises a 600cc or 750cc injector does not mean that all of that volume is being used. Sometimes it is the nature of how production things are modified into performance things that gives you certain values that you just have to roll with.
3) Injection ratio and moving mass amounts of fluid are all VERY critical to a HEUI setup. There are lots of scenarios to consider and lots of compromises to be made. A numerically lower injection ratio can actually deliver a higher injection pressure to a tip at HIGH demand - this is due to pressure loss of fluid through is travel to the intensifier piston. With a higher injection ratio the flow rate demand to keep up is so high that the amount of pressure that is lost is great enough that it is a detriment to injection pressure. A lower injection ratio means that at LOW demands you don't have as high of an injection pressure as you would with a higher injection ratio (all things being equal).
4) Others have tired lower ratio plungers and barrels - they didn't work due to machining tolerances - these things HAVE to be VERY tight. They also chose poorly on their injection ratio (I'll just say that is my opinion as I don't want to go down the path of how to choose an optimum ratio number based upon actual data points and extrapolating operating ranges for certain tasks). The plungers and barrels that I have were machined in a temperature controlled environment, then heat treated, then ground in a very tightly controlled temperature controlled environment, then shipped to Europe for a proprietary coating that you will find used on a good number of the aftermarket plungers and barrels being used for mechanical pumps, then they were all measured used custom made air gauges and hand fit and matched to provide the desired fit tolerance. If I take the plunger out of the barrel and hold it in my hand for a minute and try and reassemble it, it won't fit. There is a 50 millionths of an inch slip fit when all is said and done (that's 0.00005" and also very comparable to the high performance plungers and barrels found in the high end mechanical pumps).
5) I have designed and prototyped new solenoids - utilizing the same power requirements as the current solenoids I have quadrupled the strength at the same distance. Yay science! It remains to be seen if these cause other electrical interference issues in operation.... It takes over 100 components and nearly 30 hours to build one precisely by hand once the components themselves are manufactured from raw stock.
6) Refilling the injector is not a concern for me. I have yet to see any issues using standard fuel pressure setups. On my pulling truck I tested up to 300psi using a mechanical lift pump.... so options are already out there if it does become an issue. (DON'T go out and put 300psi to your injectors.... you won't like it!!)
7) I laugh at the old 4kpsi "extreme ICP" - that is far from extreme.
8) Most people base the capabilities of the 7.3 bottom end on how it has handled an injection system that is slow and requires LONG PW events to inject a volume of fuel worthy of power. That LONG PW directly translates into low RPM. Low RPM, "high" power means high torque. Torque makes **** go boom.
9) This stuff is expensive and time consuming. I'm doing it on my own dime and it will be ready when its ready and I have no expectations of ever getting close to breaking even - no one can afford to buy parts for what they actually cost to make in such small quantities.
1) The problem is not necessarily in the electronics, but it is a control problem none the less.
2) Just because someone advertises a 600cc or 750cc injector does not mean that all of that volume is being used. Sometimes it is the nature of how production things are modified into performance things that gives you certain values that you just have to roll with.
3) Injection ratio and moving mass amounts of fluid are all VERY critical to a HEUI setup. There are lots of scenarios to consider and lots of compromises to be made. A numerically lower injection ratio can actually deliver a higher injection pressure to a tip at HIGH demand - this is due to pressure loss of fluid through is travel to the intensifier piston. With a higher injection ratio the flow rate demand to keep up is so high that the amount of pressure that is lost is great enough that it is a detriment to injection pressure. A lower injection ratio means that at LOW demands you don't have as high of an injection pressure as you would with a higher injection ratio (all things being equal).
4) Others have tired lower ratio plungers and barrels - they didn't work due to machining tolerances - these things HAVE to be VERY tight. They also chose poorly on their injection ratio (I'll just say that is my opinion as I don't want to go down the path of how to choose an optimum ratio number based upon actual data points and extrapolating operating ranges for certain tasks). The plungers and barrels that I have were machined in a temperature controlled environment, then heat treated, then ground in a very tightly controlled temperature controlled environment, then shipped to Europe for a proprietary coating that you will find used on a good number of the aftermarket plungers and barrels being used for mechanical pumps, then they were all measured used custom made air gauges and hand fit and matched to provide the desired fit tolerance. If I take the plunger out of the barrel and hold it in my hand for a minute and try and reassemble it, it won't fit. There is a 50 millionths of an inch slip fit when all is said and done (that's 0.00005" and also very comparable to the high performance plungers and barrels found in the high end mechanical pumps).
5) I have designed and prototyped new solenoids - utilizing the same power requirements as the current solenoids I have quadrupled the strength at the same distance. Yay science! It remains to be seen if these cause other electrical interference issues in operation.... It takes over 100 components and nearly 30 hours to build one precisely by hand once the components themselves are manufactured from raw stock.
6) Refilling the injector is not a concern for me. I have yet to see any issues using standard fuel pressure setups. On my pulling truck I tested up to 300psi using a mechanical lift pump.... so options are already out there if it does become an issue. (DON'T go out and put 300psi to your injectors.... you won't like it!!)
7) I laugh at the old 4kpsi "extreme ICP" - that is far from extreme.
8) Most people base the capabilities of the 7.3 bottom end on how it has handled an injection system that is slow and requires LONG PW events to inject a volume of fuel worthy of power. That LONG PW directly translates into low RPM. Low RPM, "high" power means high torque. Torque makes **** go boom.
9) This stuff is expensive and time consuming. I'm doing it on my own dime and it will be ready when its ready and I have no expectations of ever getting close to breaking even - no one can afford to buy parts for what they actually cost to make in such small quantities.
elrodalexander73
Member
And the hero posts again!!! thanks HOT ROD Tractor.
Charles
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LOL! Only check I ever wrote out was for my new 6.7......silly hick from Georgia.
Dyno numbers are so over rated........, the last truck I seen on a Dyno that sounded like a bag of hammers was a red regular cab Super Duty......from GA.:doh:
So you payed credit, or cash, details...
Dyno values don't matter to you, and you think a truck running 28* of timing sounds like a bag of hammers...
My first post was dead on. You don't understand much, you just do what you're told, and pay someone else to tune it in such a way that 300cc's is the max the poor engine can take.
A stock bottom end will only hold 500hp if you treat it like sh*t too.
The golden gate bridge could only support a few thousand pounds without failure if dropped from space...
That doesn't mean the golden gate bridge can only support a few thousand pounds.
