Bad ipr or hpop?

TyCorr

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Welcome to used diesel truck shopping. Maybe a trusted mechanic or even 300$ to a ford dealer to run some tests would have been wise. You'll upgrade your injectors and since ad's cost as much as single shots you'll do the singles and with tuning they'll make enough to spit a trans out.

That filter tightening issue is baffling to me as you replaced that cooler end so its not like its even tue same pieces. Somebody if ***kin this up. Its damn near inconceivable.

Better get a plan in place and stick to it. That way you arent winging anything.

You plan to drive this thing and use it for its basic intended purpose? Or are you going to hotrod it?
 
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Brad.S.19

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Welcome to used diesel truck shopping. Maybe a trusted mechanic or even 300$ to a ford dealer to run some tests would have been wise. You'll upgrade your injectors and since ad's cost as much as single shots you'll do the singles and with tuning they'll make enough to spit a trans out.

That filter tightening issue is baffling to me as you replaced that cooler end so its not like its even tue same pieces. Somebody if ***kin this up. Its damn near inconceivable.

Better get a plan in place and stick to it. That way you arent winging anything.

You plan to drive this thing and use it for its basic intended purpose? Or are you going to hotrod it?
When I bought it went over the tire kicking stuff and I guess I was naive about the injectors would have never thought someone selling a truck would do that for the price range it was at being a dealership. some stuff is just showing up on a regular basis like they were trying to hide it like the steering stuff wheels leaking air jacked up wiring and general disregard for safety. as for the oil filter I am not sure either I may change locations or use something to prevent it I am going to get a snap on strap style.

If I do injectors I was thinking casserlly reman 160cc stock nozzle single shots with gearhead tuning unless that will spit parts up. non-ebpv pedestal ic y pipe gauges 6637 lift pump and a exhaust I really do not want to hot rod it more so reliable dd with some stoplight get up and go. I may just have to see how it pans out now it is rust free compared to most but this just sucks having so much happen at once. I thought maybe next summer maybe then general maintenance and care but this is over the top for my wallet and bank account.

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TyCorr

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Yea, it seems every truck bought lately is having the same problems and perhaps people unloaded them because they didnt want to replace injectors or hpo components.

If what you said is true then some 160/stock or 160/30 would be great. 5im at PIS sells remanned ad's with a 30 percent nozzle that will supposedly gain 50 hp in a stock truck with NO TUNING. Or you could get a ts chip and make up to 375hp at the rear wheels.

If I was going the route you suggest I wiuld consider them simply because you dont NEED tuning to run them. They will probably be best with an upgraded hpop but then again, may be fine without it.
 

Brad.S.19

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Yea, it seems every truck bought lately is having the same problems and perhaps people unloaded them because they didnt want to replace injectors or hpo components.

If what you said is true then some 160/stock or 160/30 would be great. 5im at PIS sells remanned ad's with a 30 percent nozzle that will supposedly gain 50 hp in a stock truck with NO TUNING. Or you could get a ts chip and make up to 375hp at the rear wheels.

If I was going the route you suggest I wiuld consider them simply because you dont NEED tuning to run them. They will probably be best with an upgraded hpop but then again, may be fine without it.
I was running 2400-2600 icp@ 40% Duty
Someone mentioned that was low or about right for a stocker I can not remember grain of salt for that comment. But for god sakes why screw someone on injectors it is not very diffucult to repair something to gain the edge in business when ya screw someone it takes all your reputation away in a instant. Sorry for the rant but how much does he charge for a set? Also no tuning/hpop would it be better to do it anyways for a better fuel burn and reliability of the parts?

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TyCorr

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I was running 2400-2600 icp@ 40% Duty
Someone mentioned that was low or about right for a stocker I can not remember grain of salt for that comment. But for god sakes why screw someone on injectors it is not very diffucult to repair something to gain the edge in business when ya screw someone it takes all your reputation away in a instant. Sorry for the rant but how much does he charge for a set? Also no tuning/hpop would it be better to do it anyways for a better fuel burn and reliability of the parts?

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not necessarily. A daily driver tune or economy tune or performance tune will probably net you better fuel economy than a stock calibration (running no chip). But, my thinking is if you can throw in a set of stock injectors that dont rely on a certain chip, which 160s with any size nozzle do, you remove that variable. In other words if your chip is bad or goes out or the tunes start acting up, you remove the chip and you still have a decent and very workable setup. If you lose a chip with 160s in a superduty the truck probably wont be driveable due to the pcm being loaded with a split shot calibration.
 

Brad.S.19

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not necessarily. A daily driver tune or economy tune or performance tune will probably net you better fuel economy than a stock calibration (running no chip). But, my thinking is if you can throw in a set of stock injectors that dont rely on a certain chip, which 160s with any size nozzle do, you remove that variable. In other words if your chip is bad or goes out or the tunes start acting up, you remove the chip and you still have a decent and very workable setup. If you lose a chip with 160s in a superduty the truck probably wont be driveable due to the pcm being loaded with a split shot calibration.
Alright, I have looked for stock reman ad but the least expensive I have found are 185/each with a core of 150/each whereas the 160s are about 135/each and 850/core for the set if you know of a reman ad for the same I would be so happy. How difficult are injectors I've heard horror stories from poor installs and for inj new everything never reuse certain parts?

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Brad.S.19

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I looked into the swap some more should I do the hpo lines and connectors, wear items along with any other misc items? Again sorry for my ignorance on this the high output ads are a split shot with 30% nozzle if I read it correctly?

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TyCorr

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Yea. Ad injectors are 150cc split shot. The ones he's selling as HO are rebuilt STOCK injectors but they have faster nozzle on them, the 30%.

Now, Im not telling you they will work better than this or that. My reasoning, to reiterate, to use the high output ads is simply that they can be used with or without a chip. An ac (160cc) can not be used without a custom tuned chip but in comparison an ac with a 30% nozzle (160/30) will make more power. Approximately 25 more hp.

You stated you wanted it reliable and hoped to have reliability and such. The ad gives you more of a stock reliability but with a larger nozzle you have a potential to make a little bit better power.

Believe me, I have even thought about throwing a set in and letting er rip.
 

TARM

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Ty,

I agree with you on the areas such as not needing a tune etc. But I would think stock single shots would actually be the most reliable. Again I agree with other facts about no chip etc. You also almost never had the issue with the #7 injector until the split shots where brought into play IIRC. Again I agree if cost is a major concern and he never plans to have a chip etc.. Otherwise I would go with a single shot. Another thing is stock split shots can over take the hpop with a chip I tend to wonder what 30% larger nozzle would do. I would not want that with a weakish hpop. But I do get your point and the reason and direction.


I would say get the 30% over stock nozzle, if they are not much in added cost, and in single shot config. Not split shot. The tuner can always keep it turned down to whatever power level you want. He can make that thing only put out 100 hp if that is what you really want. Or he could make it push out to the limit of that injectors and everything in between. Do not forget in the end you have ultimate control with your right foot.




Brad,

Here is my thought. You are running a stock turbo, stock tranny. and a stock HPOP. That hpop maybe somewhat weak already or maybe its ok, who knows for sure right now. Single shots use far less HPOP oil thus if anything can make a HPOP last even longer and perf better during that time its the them.

The benefit of tunes ( if you speak to your tuner) is they could actually help your tranny live by increasing line pressure and snapping the shifts quicker so they do not slip as much. A tune can also actually defuel the injectors during hard throttle for that split second during the shift to back the power off while its shifting. Again he can also control power and specifically for the tranny tq.

As you are running a stock turbo and even a stock injector with tunes can push the turbo past its limits you really do not need more fuel ( IF YOU DO NOT GET BIT BY THE POWER BUG that is) The main reason for the 30% is just a stop gap incase down the road you wanted more power yet still keep price down and no add on's needed.

There are a few upgrades as you go that will actually improve not only the performance of your engine tranny but also improve its duty life. But you can worry about that down the road.

I personally, if you can afford to, would go with 30% single shot injectors from Nate@ Unlimited Diesel. They have a life time warranty which can put your mind at easy about issues with them down the road. Get your tunes as you stated from Matt. Matt recommends and has done a ton of work with tuning engines with Nate's injectors and one of the reasons I think it makes sense. I also have personal experience with both of them and rate them both extremely high. Talk to Matt about your concerns and have him set your tunes accordingly.

That should get you up and running.

Then once you have everything done and you have recovered from dumping the cash some things to help down the road:

First save up and purchase AutoEnginuity. If you plan to work on your own vehicles as it seems you are already doing you really need to have this. Maybe find someone to go into on it with you and you can split the cost. You can load the program on both computers and then only have to share the connector and USB cord for who is using it at the time. You have no idea how much headache that software will save you.

Get a set of gauges if you do not have them already. The basic trans boost egts.

Get a valve body from BTS or John woods from one of our distributors or direct. Maybe find a used one. This will go a long ways to helping your trans live longer.

As you are staying basically stock might as well keep the stock fuel bowl but you really need to get rid of the deahead setup so pick up the Riff Raff FRX. I prefer a full fuel system but this is quick and easy and with stockish injectors it will do the job. With those injectors your stock system will do the job. You could replace the connectors on the feed fuel lines prior to the fuel pump to prevent air intrusion as that would save you $$ over installing a new PU and hose.

Fuel filters. Just because its stated for fit the 7.3 fuel bowl does not mean it meets the Ford IH specs. Wix/NAPA are crap and bad micron ratings as well 14 mic nominal ( 50%) which means something like 16-18mic absolute at best. I strongly recommend Donaldson P550437 as it has a 5 mic 95% and 6-7 absolute rating and . Next would be to just go with the Ford OEM thus Racor which has the same basic perf as baldwin 10 mic 98%. Change this every 2 oil changes or 10K miles. This will go a long way to keeping your injectors from wear on the fuel side.

The next is something I have done for 20 yrs now any time I buy a vehicle ( almost never buy new) Change and flush ever fluid system and install new filters. There are a few reasons for this. One it gets you a point of reference as a starting point. No having to trust they dealer or person to have not used the cheapest crap they could find or not done it when they said they had. Second you would be surprised at what you can learn about the state of your vehicle by doing this. You are touching basically all the major parts as well as the fluid condition itself can be helpful.

Most people do not think about all the various fluids.

* Engine oil

* Transmission flush and filter put a inline filter if you want extra protection

*Transfer case: Trans fluid

* Flush Power steering ( uses trans fluid) You would be surpise how much this can improve the PS performance for some trucks.

* Coolant system and switch to a ELC coolant as it will save you from ever having to deal with additives and lasts for 500-600K miles (add a bypass filter when you can)

* Brake system flush ( ideally you should completely flush the system every 2-3 yrs) Anytime there is brake fade you should blend a small amount out of those brakes ( usually the fronts) as they faded because the fluid boiled) ( replacing the OEM hose with stainless steel braided prevents hose swell and gives more brake pressure)

*Front and rear axle diffs: At least the rear has likley seen better days. Regardless what Ford says if that has towed heavy and hit any inclines its been well cooked. Not to mention any metal shavings on the plug etc..

* All the U-joints and ball joints grease them. If yours is 4x4 you have unit bearings up front. You will see it written that there is no way to grease or service this. The factory did not try and make them to be greased but they can be. You pull out the antilock brake sensor and with that side jacked up and tire off you can find a grease fitting that will jam in there with a half way decent seal and slowly turn it while you grease. You will feel it start to get resistance as the grease fills up. When you feel that you are done. That is sure better than no grease at all which is what eventually eats the unit bearing up. A number of guys that have done this after replacing them have over a 150K on them without issue and still running strong. Hit is once or twice a year.
 

lincolnlocker

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Ty,

I agree with you on the areas such as not needing a tune etc. But I would think stock single shots would actually be the most reliable. Again I agree with other facts about no chip etc. You also almost never had the issue with the #7 injector until the split shots where brought into play IIRC. Again I agree if cost is a major concern and he never plans to have a chip etc.. Otherwise I would go with a single shot. Another thing is stock split shots can over take the hpop with a chip I tend to wonder what 30% larger nozzle would do. I would not want that with a weakish hpop. But I do get your point and the reason and direction.


I would say get the 30% over stock nozzle, if they are not much in added cost, and in single shot config. Not split shot. The tuner can always keep it turned down to whatever power level you want. He can make that thing only put out 100 hp if that is what you really want. Or he could make it push out to the limit of that injectors and everything in between. Do not forget in the end you have ultimate control with your right foot.




Brad,

Here is my thought. You are running a stock turbo, stock tranny. and a stock HPOP. That hpop maybe somewhat weak already or maybe its ok, who knows for sure right now. Single shots use far less HPOP oil thus if anything can make a HPOP last even longer and perf better during that time its the them.

The benefit of tunes ( if you speak to your tuner) is they could actually help your tranny live by increasing line pressure and snapping the shifts quicker so they do not slip as much. A tune can also actually defuel the injectors during hard throttle for that split second during the shift to back the power off while its shifting. Again he can also control power and specifically for the tranny tq.

As you are running a stock turbo and even a stock injector with tunes can push the turbo past its limits you really do not need more fuel ( IF YOU DO NOT GET BIT BY THE POWER BUG that is) The main reason for the 30% is just a stop gap incase down the road you wanted more power yet still keep price down and no add on's needed.

There are a few upgrades as you go that will actually improve not only the performance of your engine tranny but also improve its duty life. But you can worry about that down the road.

I personally, if you can afford to, would go with 30% single shot injectors from Nate@ Unlimited Diesel. They have a life time warranty which can put your mind at easy about issues with them down the road. Get your tunes as you stated from Matt. Matt recommends and has done a ton of work with tuning engines with Nate's injectors and one of the reasons I think it makes sense. I also have personal experience with both of them and rate them both extremely high. Talk to Matt about your concerns and have him set your tunes accordingly.

That should get you up and running.

Then once you have everything done and you have recovered from dumping the cash some things to help down the road:

First save up and purchase AutoEnginuity. If you plan to work on your own vehicles as it seems you are already doing you really need to have this. Maybe find someone to go into on it with you and you can split the cost. You can load the program on both computers and then only have to share the connector and USB cord for who is using it at the time. You have no idea how much headache that software will save you.

Get a set of gauges if you do not have them already. The basic trans boost egts.

Get a valve body from BTS or John woods from one of our distributors or direct. Maybe find a used one. This will go a long ways to helping your trans live longer.

As you are staying basically stock might as well keep the stock fuel bowl but you really need to get rid of the deahead setup so pick up the Riff Raff FRX. I prefer a full fuel system but this is quick and easy and with stockish injectors it will do the job. With those injectors your stock system will do the job. You could replace the connectors on the feed fuel lines prior to the fuel pump to prevent air intrusion as that would save you $$ over installing a new PU and hose.

Fuel filters. Just because its stated for fit the 7.3 fuel bowl does not mean it meets the Ford IH specs. Wix/NAPA are crap and bad micron ratings as well 14 mic nominal ( 50%) which means something like 16-18mic absolute at best. I strongly recommend Donaldson P550437 as it has a 5 mic 95% and 6-7 absolute rating and . Next would be to just go with the Ford OEM thus Racor which has the same basic perf as baldwin 10 mic 98%. Change this every 2 oil changes or 10K miles. This will go a long way to keeping your injectors from wear on the fuel side.

The next is something I have done for 20 yrs now any time I buy a vehicle ( almost never buy new) Change and flush ever fluid system and install new filters. There are a few reasons for this. One it gets you a point of reference as a starting point. No having to trust they dealer or person to have not used the cheapest crap they could find or not done it when they said they had. Second you would be surprised at what you can learn about the state of your vehicle by doing this. You are touching basically all the major parts as well as the fluid condition itself can be helpful.

Most people do not think about all the various fluids.

* Engine oil

* Transmission flush and filter put a inline filter if you want extra protection

*Transfer case: Trans fluid

* Flush Power steering ( uses trans fluid) You would be surpise how much this can improve the PS performance for some trucks.

* Coolant system and switch to a ELC coolant as it will save you from ever having to deal with additives and lasts for 500-600K miles (add a bypass filter when you can)

* Brake system flush ( ideally you should completely flush the system every 2-3 yrs) Anytime there is brake fade you should blend a small amount out of those brakes ( usually the fronts) as they faded because the fluid boiled) ( replacing the OEM hose with stainless steel braided prevents hose swell and gives more brake pressure)

*Front and rear axle diffs: At least the rear has likley seen better days. Regardless what Ford says if that has towed heavy and hit any inclines its been well cooked. Not to mention any metal shavings on the plug etc..

* All the U-joints and ball joints grease them. If yours is 4x4 you have unit bearings up front. You will see it written that there is no way to grease or service this. The factory did not try and make them to be greased but they can be. You pull out the antilock brake sensor and with that side jacked up and tire off you can find a grease fitting that will jam in there with a half way decent seal and slowly turn it while you grease. You will feel it start to get resistance as the grease fills up. When you feel that you are done. That is sure better than no grease at all which is what eventually eats the unit bearing up. A number of guys that have done this after replacing them have over a 150K on them without issue and still running strong. Hit is once or twice a year.
gotta love it when tarm posts!!!

OP, listen to this guy!! very very good advice!!

live life full throttle
 

TARM

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OK simple then: I can do simple ( maybe??) I will give it a shot anyways LOL


* Get one of these injectors: (click on link)

** Stage 1 "A" Codes

or

** Stage 1.5 "A" Codes




* Get the tuning you mentioned from Matt@ Gearhead here:

** Gearhead Performance 6 postition chip with tunes and lifetime reburns

You could also get both the injectors and tunes thru Matt as he resells for Nate@ unlimited. I think prices are the same no matter who you go thru.



* If you want to stay 100% stock so you do not have to deal with any tunes etc then choose these:

** AD Code (Stock) Injector ('99.5-'03)




For stuff to do after you get this squared away and for the future refer back to the short novel length post prior to this one.
 
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TyCorr

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Bingo! Thats better Tarm. The guy is pretty new and alot of that last one went over his head.

I agree that a ac with or without nozzles will use less hpo and make more power. The only thing is for a guy like the OP, he's married to the chip. Thats the ONLY reason I suggested the renozzled, remanned stock. Run with or without a chip. Make decent power even without a chip.

If hes one of those guys that signs up for the forum, mods his truck and then goes back to life outside here it could make for issues down the road if he needs to troubleshoot.
 

TARM

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We are in agreement and thank you for taking my last post as it was intended. So much of the inflections are lost in text did not want it to come off as being obstinate.
 

TyCorr

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We are in agreement and thank you for taking my last post as it was intended. So much of the inflections are lost in text did not want it to come off as being obstinate.

Naw Tim, never, I dont get worked up over this stuff. I know you are helping him.
 

TARM

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I just feel bad for what seems to happen all to often. A guy saves up, usually a bit younger, to get his first truck of his own. Buys a higher mileage 7.3 and everything on the face looks good or seems to know what the issues are. Then a week or so after he has it maybe sooner you start have all the various issues popping up. He finds out after his trans start to shift funny the fluid was never changed. The brake piston ends up being boogered or master cyl because they were never flushed etc. Not to mention all the stuff we see daily here about injectors IPR ICP CPS etc.. All those fluid and filter flushes are not just a few $$ its more like $$$ a few hundred. If you have just spent all the money you had to get your vehicle and nothing aside for that... Just better to have it understood as part of the cost of purchase.

Now you have a good starting point and anything that may change you know its just happened and nothing is being needlessly worn going forward.

If I had to pick on thing to upgrade ( after any engine power train and critical things get repaired that are needed of course) that really makes a sign difference in the day to day driving it would be all the bushings in the suspension to start with. (Do not forget the ones in the leaf springs either.) They are almost for sure OEM dated to the truck manf date as unless it has suspension package installed by the past owner no one ever seems to do maintenance on that stuff.

New shocks. Flushing the PS pump goes a long way for the steering.

Follow that with a checking the tie rod joints and replace the whole thing if any are worn as the others are sure to follow.

That sure goes a long way to making the truck drive well and feel good on the street. All the power in the world is not much fun outside a smooth straight road if you are wobbling and drifting all over the place.
 

lincolnlocker

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I just feel bad for what seems to happen all to often. A guy saves up, usually a bit younger, to get his first truck of his own. Buys a higher mileage 7.3 and everything on the face looks good or seems to know what the issues are. Then a week or so after he has it maybe sooner you start have all the various issues popping up. He finds out after his trans start to shift funny the fluid was never changed. The brake piston ends up being boogered or master cyl because they were never flushed etc. Not to mention all the stuff we see daily here about injectors IPR ICP CPS etc.. All those fluid and filter flushes are not just a few $$ its more like $$$ a few hundred. If you have just spent all the money you had to get your vehicle and nothing aside for that... Just better to have it understood as part of the cost of purchase.

Now you have a good starting point and anything that may change you know its just happened and nothing is being needlessly worn going forward.

If I had to pick on thing to upgrade ( after any engine power train and critical things get repaired that are needed of course) that really makes a sign difference in the day to day driving it would be all the bushings in the suspension to start with. (Do not forget the ones in the leaf springs either.) They are almost for sure OEM dated to the truck manf date as unless it has suspension package installed by the past owner no one ever seems to do maintenance on that stuff.

New shocks. Flushing the PS pump goes a long way for the steering.

Follow that with a checking the tie rod joints and replace the whole thing if any are worn as the others are sure to follow.

That sure goes a long way to making the truck drive well and feel good on the street. All the power in the world is not much fun outside a smooth straight road if you are wobbling and drifting all over the place.
couldn't have said it better tarm!!

live life full throttle
 

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