Best bang for the buck traction bars?

[Coueshunter]

I know there is a ton of chatter on why brand A or Brand B traction bars are better..

I've even seen so much as makes the ride rougher if you don't use this mount that has been on ford radius arms for years lol

What make an OUO bar "superior" in some people opinion?

 

[Betarocker]

I know there is a ton of chatter on why brand A or Brand B traction bars are better..

I've even seen so much as makes the ride rougher if you don't use this mount that has been on ford radius arms for years lol

What make an OUO bar "superior" in some people opinion?

***Preface*** I'm no engineer, but I play one at work sometimes.

An axle mounted on leaf springs does not move in a radial path. It actually moves in a funky elliptical pathway; meaning at some point in its travel it is closer or further away from the traction bar mount.

OUO addresses this by using elastomeric bushings at the forward end of the bars where they mount to the frame brackets. This keeps the pinion angle more constant during the axle's travel path.

Using fixed mounts assumes the pathway is an arc around the attachment point. What actually happens is the pinion angle changes during the axle's travel path.

Floating bar designs address the virtual pivot by allowing the forward end to move fore and aft.

 

[Layson]

I know there is a ton of chatter on why brand A or Brand B traction bars are better..

I've even seen so much as makes the ride rougher if you don't use this mount that has been on ford radius arms for years lol

What make an OUO bar "superior" in some people opinion?

There are no joints in them. They also are not fixed length. That front frame mount has bushings on each side of the mount. So when the leaf spring compresses that bushing squishes one way. Then with the leaf droops the other bushing compresses. That way your rear leaf springs still retain the same amount of travel as it did before.


When you have joints in your bars that is a wear item. They will have to be serviced some day and when joints are not happy some make noises and clunk. The other bars are a fixed length that want to resist the leaf spring movement. So they have to make the ride stiffer.


I have had them on my personal truck, stuck them on my fathers truck, and have quite a few friends with them as well. You won't find anyone complaining about anything on them. They first complain on price but once they have the parts in front of them they stop their bitching....LOL


Easy to install. The packaging is fantastic so it isn't going to get damaged on the way. The directions are great and easy to follow. You can put these on in your driveway without any problems.


Then if you lift or lower your truck. They are adjustable in length and you have to redrill the center hole like Jared mentioned above.


Then if you sell your truck and you want to sell your bars. These will fit on pretty much any cab or bed configuration or almost any lift height. Very versatile.


Then one real nice bonus is anywhere you go people are going to ask you about them. LOL

 

[NotStock]

No worries about suspension binding with our kit!

 

[Coueshunter]

***Preface*** I'm no engineer, but I play one at work sometimes.

An axle mounted on leaf springs does not move in a radial path. It actually moves in a funky elliptical pathway; meaning at some point in its travel it is closer or further away from the traction bar mount.

OUO addresses this by using elastomeric bushings at the forward end of the bars where they mount to the frame brackets. This keeps the pinion angle more constant during the axle's travel path.

Using fixed mounts assumes the pathway is an arc around the attachment point. What actually happens is the pinion angle changes during the axle's travel path.

Floating bar designs address the virtual pivot by allowing the forward end to move fore and aft.

What is the deflection of the bar in a given path?

What does the shackle do in this deflection? Isn't it the shackles job to take up deflection difference?

 

[Coueshunter]

There are no joints in them. They also are not fixed length. That front frame mount has bushings on each side of the mount. So when the leaf spring compresses that bushing squishes one way. Then with the leaf droops the other bushing compresses. That way your rear leaf springs still retain the same amount of travel as it did before.


When you have joints in your bars that is a wear item. They will have to be serviced some day and when joints are not happy some make noises and clunk. The other bars are a fixed length that want to resist the leaf spring movement. So they have to make the ride stiffer.


I have had them on my personal truck, stuck them on my fathers truck, and have quite a few friends with them as well. You won't find anyone complaining about anything on them. They first complain on price but once they have the parts in front of them they stop their bitching....LOL


Easy to install. The packaging is fantastic so it isn't going to get damaged on the way. The directions are great and easy to follow. You can put these on in your driveway without any problems.


Then if you lift or lower your truck. They are adjustable in length and you have to redrill the center hole like Jared mentioned above.


Then if you sell your truck and you want to sell your bars. These will fit on pretty much any cab or bed configuration or almost any lift height. Very versatile.


Then one real nice bonus is anywhere you go people are going to ask you about them. LOL

There most certainly is a joint in an OuO bar. Maybe not a "traditional bushing joint. It used a pin style joint like radius arms on fords for decades...

Have you ever changed out a set of Ford radius bushings? They make horrendous clunking noises when work out and they most certainly do wear out.

So explain to me what a shackle does on a leaf spring truck please... Isn't that how a leaf sprung truck accepts the deflection of a straight up and down wheel?

How much is the deflection anyways? Aren't we talking MMs?

Can you explain why every truck that gets built gets rid of the typical bushing ended join found on radius arms... For a rebuilds leukotomy when they want more travel???

We are worried about drilling a hole when our frames are full of holes...

 

[sootie]

There most certainly is a joint in an OuO bar. Maybe not a "traditional bushing joint. It used a pin style joint like radius arms on fords for decades...

Have you ever changed out a set of Ford radius bushings? They make horrendous clunking noises when work out and they most certainly do wear out.

So explain to me what a shackle does on a leaf spring truck please... Isn't that how a leaf sprung truck accepts the deflection of a straight up and down wheel?

How much is the deflection anyways? Aren't we talking MMs?

Can you explain why every truck that gets built gets rid of the typical bushing ended join found on radius arms... For a rebuilds leukotomy when they want more travel???

We are worried about drilling a hole when our frames are full of holes...

have you ever looked at leaf spring mounts? they are not parallel with the ground...

 

[Coueshunter]

have you ever looked at leaf spring mounts? they are not parallel with the ground...

Sure have and there is a recent for it...Neither is a traction bar, why do you think that is?

 

[Betarocker]

There most certainly is a joint in an OuO bar. Maybe not a "traditional bushing joint. It used a pin style joint like radius arms on fords for decades...

Have you ever changed out a set of Ford radius bushings? They make horrendous clunking noises when work out and they most certainly do wear out.

So explain to me what a shackle does on a leaf spring truck please... Isn't that how a leaf sprung truck accepts the deflection of a straight up and down wheel?

How much is the deflection anyways? Aren't we talking MMs?

Can you explain why every truck that gets built gets rid of the typical bushing ended join found on radius arms... For a rebuilds leukotomy when they want more travel???

We are worried about drilling a hole when our frames are full of holes...

The shackle certainly moves in a radial path and allows the spring to move. I was only referring to the path of the axle which is different than the shackle's path.

Change of length in normal conditions of suspension travel would be in the 15mm+/- range.

 

[Coueshunter]

The shackle certainly moves in a radial path and allows the spring to move. I was only referring to the path of the axle which is different than the shackle's path.

Change of length in normal conditions of suspension travel would be in the 15mm+/- range.

So the rear suspension working in conjunction with the shackle works perfectly as designed with a fixed set of traction bars.

There would be no binding because as the travel of the lead spring goes up it would push the shackle back. In fact if you mount a go pro on the rear frame you'll see that the leaf spring also moves in an arc when compressed from a bump. It doesn't just go straight up and down.

 

[Layson]

The shackle certainly moves in a radial path and allows the spring to move. I was only referring to the path of the axle which is different than the shackle's path.

Change of length in normal conditions of suspension travel would be in the 15mm+/- range.

I don't think this guy asked the question to get a real answer. He is from Gilbert AZ and PMF is a hundred miles from him in Tucson AZ.

 

[NotStock]

I don't think this guy asked the question to get a real answer. He is from Gilbert AZ and PMF is a hundred miles from him in Tucson AZ.

The *** does that mean?

 

[Coueshunter]

I don't think this guy asked the question to get a real answer. He is from Gilbert AZ and PMF is a hundred miles from him in Tucson AZ.

I'm currently in Amarillo, Tx... Does that make you feel better? Hell, I use to live in wilsonville, Or.. That's a stone throw from OuO.. I'm not catching your point.

So when someone makes a "claim" or a blanket statement it can't be asked why or challenged?

 

[UNBROKEN]

Not if it's challenging OUO.
Some of their folks get a little bent outta shape....it is what it is.

 

[Betarocker]

So the rear suspension working in conjunction with the shackle works perfectly as designed with a fixed set of traction bars.

There would be no binding because as the travel of the lead spring goes up it would push the shackle back. In fact if you mount a go pro on the rear frame you'll see that the leaf spring also moves in an arc when compressed from a bump. It doesn't just go straight up and down.

I don't think you're grasping the physics of having multiple moving objects with different center points of rotation. The axle's path of movement center of rotation is virtual and constantly changing in space as the shackle-spring joint is moved in its path. The axle does not follow and arc centered at the fixed hanger-spring joint. The arc segment length from the hanger-spring joint along the arc of the spring to the block remains a constant, but the straight line between the two points changes as the springs is flattened or arched. The axle also moves in relation to the springs movement, but it is compounded by the location where it is mounted to the spring and the height of the block. Another factor is the continually moving tangent plain where the block attaches to the spring changes angles as the spring is flattened or arched during its movement.

Build a model and you can see for yourself how the axle moves during the suspension cycle.

 

[JRLott]

Not if it's challenging OUO.
Some of their folks get a little bent outta shape....it is what it is.

It's no different than Chevy/Dodge/Ford, Glock/Springfield/1911, or 9 vs 45 and neither a OUO or PMF has any relevance on the question asked of best bang for the buck traction bars. Best bang would obviously be DIY, even after a few trials to see what works best/acceptably.

The question currently being debated is all about the Koolaid. :swordfight: I think they are both well built functional products.

I have none, so I don't give an aero-intercourse in a rotating pastry which logo is on the box.

 

[Coueshunter]

I don't think you're grasping the physics of having multiple moving objects with different center points of rotation. The axle's path of movement center of rotation is virtual and constantly changing in space as the shackle-spring joint is moved in its path. The axle does not follow and arc centered at the fixed hanger-spring joint. The arc segment length from the hanger-spring joint along the arc of the spring to the block remains a constant, but the straight line between the two points changes as the springs is flattened or arched. The axle also moves in relation to the springs movement, but it is compounded by the location where it is mounted to the spring and the height of the block. Another factor is the continually moving tangent plain where the block attaches to the spring changes angles as the spring is flattened or arched during its movement.

Build a model and you can see for yourself how the axle moves during the suspension cycle.

I get that everything moves in a different arc.

What I'm asking is what I see all the time on here. Where does the binding come in?

I've seen it stated that a fixed bar pushes the spring out of its normal arc. Great, that's what the shackle is for in normal operation as well as with a traction bar.

So where and why would a fixed bar bind if the spring itself moves in a variably changing arc and the difference that the spring cannot compensate for is adjusted with a moving shackle.

So there is ZERO binding with a fixed bar. Correct?

 

[Layson]

I'm currently in Amarillo, Tx... Does that make you feel better? Hell, I use to live in wilsonville, Or.. That's a stone throw from OuO.. I'm not catching your point.

So when someone makes a "claim" or a blanket statement it can't be asked why or challenged?

I answered your question and I could tell by your response that no matter what I say or show you. You are not going to agree with me. I could have a full 3d rendering of how this all works and you would find faults in it. You asked a question and I gave you an answer. Once I saw your response I figured it may of just been bait.

Then I looked at your location. I thought....hmmm.... Then I looked through some of your old posts and a couple of them were in regards to PMF.



From your comments above it sounds like you think a fixed set of traction bars with no front shackle (even though I don't like front shackles) just mounted to the frame and to the axle work fine with leaf springs. Still allows the leaf spring to articulate without affecting ride quality or amount of travel. If that was actually true then the OUO bars will still work perfectly fine and everything in your world is still going to be happy.

Now in my world if I bolt a set of traction bars on a truck that don't have a front shackle or any means for some movement. It is going to affect the ride quality of the truck. There are a lot of trucks out there just like this setup. Once you bolt that on the truck that is the new pivot point for that axle. Now it is going to want to keep the leaf spring from flattening out and forcing it into a new path thus changes the system stiffness. If it was that simple and easy to get rid of wheel hop it would have came that way from the factory.

The axle physically cannot travel anything other than the path of that traction bar. It has to force the leaf spring into a different motion which does not match the original path. As the leaf spring flattens out and wants to lengthen and push out at the shackle. It is now on a radius pivot. It is easy to tell by just jacking the rear of the truck up and the axle doesn't droop out as it did without the traction bars. That amount of front and rear displacement the bushings have in the OUO bars are enough to allow the rear to droop out and enough to allow the leaf springs to flatten out.

I have a really good friend of mine that bought a truck that already has a fixed set of traction bars on the truck. I don't even know the name of the company but they pretty much are all the same construction. It is a stock truck with a leveling kit on it. It seriously rides like **** in the rear. He hates it and it is all coming off for a different set of traction bars. You jack the rear of the truck up and hardly anything moves. It is locked in to that ride height position. Granted the rear of the truck will move with enough load and even articulate. The truck corners great too....LOL Most people don't even know or realize it until someone points it out or you ride in a well setup truck. I mean its a truck right? It is supposed to ride stiff.

I know you don't like the bushings. But they have been used in these traction bars for over 10 years. There are literally hundreds and hundreds of thousands of miles on these setups. It is very rare to hear of anyone having an issue or even having to replace one of the bushings. They are a proven setup and are used by a very wide variety of people. Anyone that buys a set of these is going be happy.

 

[Coueshunter]

Your right, if a fixed set up works then so does OUO. If that's the case it would contradict a whole lot of sales pitch bs I read.

Your leaf spring does not follow a fixed path even WITHOUT a fixed traction bar. Which is one of the reasons for a shackle. The leaf spring when taking a fore or aft force will deflect the opposite direction as it compresses.

Now install that fixed traction bar. The leaf spring will still act the same way. It is not limited by the path or arc of a fixed bar as there is a moving shackle that will now deflect as the leaf spring compresses allowing the leaf spring to act normally.

Building a model is not going to change this. You can attach a GoPro under the fender well and see this in action and watch the angle of the shackle.

jacking up a truck and allowing the suspension to droop proves nothing of the upward travel. Nor does it prove anything about effecting useable wheel travel. Ever seen a rear mounted sway bar? Rides a whole lot better with one and helps a ton when looking for wheel articulation off-roading...

bone stock trucks with no traction bars ride like ****. They bounce and are stiff. But, that has nothing to do with it.

I'd love to see the bushing compressing in an OuO set up to absorb deflection. The least resistance is going to move the shackle long before a difference on a frame mounted bushing.

 

[CATDiezel]

Very valid points Layson. I don't do lifts or suspension modifications anymore. However I have been paying attention to traction bars lately and wondered the same thing being the rear suspension (rear axle) angularity is perpendicular by nature(to the frame). Adding a stiff support bar would basically make a stiff triangular setup and the point of force would be displaced between the bolts at the frame and the axle.

Now please understand I'm looking at this from a simple geometry standpoint and am not taking sides. Simply trying to understand this better myself.

On edit: So I guess my question with a rear shackle design only... what is the proper length of traction bar and how is the decision made on how the length is determined. I ask because I don't know what the deflection with lengthening (flattening the arched spring) is.

Im probably asking a proprietary question....!