Best bang for the buck traction bars?

[Coueshunter]

The shackle is part of the spring system. Without it, the spring would not be able to move. It isn't part of the traction bar system.

"A shackle is an integral component of the suspension system that attaches between the leaf spring and the vehicle frame. It allows for the leaf spring to work through length changes during suspension articulation. The leaf packs, or leaf springs, position and center the axle under the vehicle. They also support the vehicle's weight, since these are a primary component of the suspension system. As a leaf spring flexes up or down, its length from main eye to shackle eye changes. Since one end is mounted solidly (the main eye), and cannot move, the length changes happen at the shackle end of the leaf pack."

Correct it's not part of the traction bar system. However it still allows the "rate" part of the leaf spring (the rear part) to do what it was designed to do without hindering the rate or create binding.

 

[Jonnydime]

The rear part of the spring is for rate, the front part of the spring merely controls wrap.

With that in mind, a traction bar does nothing to hinder the operation of the back half of the spring as compression will be adjusted by shackle movement.

Are you insinuating that when you compress a leaf spring that the back half is the only part to flatten and elongate and that the front portion stays arched and the length does not change?

 

[Coueshunter]

Are you insinuating that when you compress a leaf spring that the back half is the only part to flatten and elongate and that the front portion stays arched and the length does not change?

The front part does not effect the dampening in the rear of the spring as it flattens. The rear is free to love with the shackle. If this is the case, what negative effects does a fixed traction bar really play? It will only effect although minimally if at all the front half of the spring..

 

[tbsimmons]

Same concept on why a 3 linked front end on these trucks isn't the greatest.


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Fixed.

 

[Jomax]

Fixed.

Sorry, you are right. Just sadly, everyone knows them as 4 link. If I say 3 link, most people automatically think of ALAs


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[tbsimmons]

Sorry, you are right. Just sadly, everyone knows them as 4 link. If I say 3 link, most people automatically think of ALAs


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True.
I am just getting a kick out of all this. I used to build 4-links for trucks and never had a bind problem. Hell used to put the bags on the bottom "bar" so you could get a bunch of lift.

 

[Breaking Habits]

True.
I am just getting a kick out of all this. I used to build 4-links for trucks and never had a bind problem. Hell used to put the bags on the bottom "bar" so you could get a bunch of lift.

Unfortunately then, you would refer to it as a 5 link by design then correct?

If I'm not mistaken they still have a track bar

 

[Betarocker]

The front part does not effect the dampening in the rear of the spring as it flattens. The rear is free to love with the shackle. If this is the case, what negative effects does a fixed traction bar really play? It will only effect although minimally if at all the front half of the spring..

:doh: If this is what you think, then there's no way you'll understand reality. By your logic there wouldn't be a need for a slip yoke on the driveshaft.

 

[Betarocker]

Unfortunately then, you would refer to it as a 5 link by design then correct?

If I'm not mistaken they still have a track bar

Don't Trophy trucks use 4 link rear suspension, with the upper bars triangulated to keep the axle centered laterally?

 

[tbsimmons]

Unfortunately then, you would refer to it as a 5 link by design then correct?

If I'm not mistaken they still have a track bar

Negative. Pan hard are for ones that are not triangulated. When you add a pan hard up and down is limited because of the length.


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[tbsimmons]

Don't Trophy trucks use 4 link rear suspension, with the upper bars triangulated to keep the axle centered laterally?

Exactly.
What he is talking about is basically ladder bars that bolt top and bottom or 4 parallel bars.


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[Breaking Habits]

Don't Trophy trucks use 4 link rear suspension, with the upper bars triangulated to keep the axle centered laterally?

Yes. That is a different type of animal.

 

[Breaking Habits]

Negative. Pan hard are for ones that are not triangulated. When you add a pan hard up and down is limited because of the length.


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That is exactly my point.

Do any of the front "4 link conversions" have a triangulated 4 link?

David was referring to the guys who bolt a "4 link conversion" onto a radius arm truck, and how it is doesn't function properly, one reason is what you just pointed out.

Which in turn is in fact a 5 link suspension. Upper driver, lower driver, upper passenger, lower passenger, track rod.

Which is why I corrected what you said, because I knew where David was going with it.

 

[tbsimmons]

What needing correcting on what I stated? Nothing.

What is it called when you have 4 bars with no pan hard, radius or whatever you feel like calling it?
To me that is 4 bars, you make a non 90 degree angle and that's called a triangle.
So again I didn't need correcting. I am not in this discussion, to me traction bars are way over thought and to some to think they are black magic when they are not.

 

[Breaking Habits]

What needing correcting on what I stated? Nothing.

What is it called when you have 4 bars with no pan hard, radius or whatever you feel like calling it?
To me that is 4 bars, you make a non 90 degree angle and that's called a triangle.
So again I didn't need correcting. I am not in this discussion, to me traction bars are way over thought and to some to think they are black magic when they are not.

I just didn't see what you were correcting David for? And I made a point to discussion. I'm leaving the traction bar discussion alone, like was said before, there's really no point to posting anymore on that.

I get what you are saying about a triangulated 4 link.. I am not arguing that fact at all.

I was just making a point to what David was saying about a 4 link, by common terminology, which is a 5 link on this application. I think you may have mistook my commentating as something else

 

[f100cleveland]

So for a DIY setup, why aren't guys making the traction bars with a shackle on the front mount of the traction bar like the trail/off road trucks do? Then you'd get better articulation and still control the wrap since that'd be moving the bar on a different plane than the shackle wants to go.

But the ultimate setup would be a 4 link with a wishbone


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[tbsimmons]

I just didn't see what you were correcting David for? And I made a point to discussion. I'm leaving the traction bar discussion alone, like was said before, there's really no point to posting anymore on that.

I get what you are saying about a triangulated 4 link.. I am not arguing that fact at all.

I was just making a point to what David was saying about a 4 link, by common terminology, which is a 5 link on this application. I think you may have mistook my commentating as something else

If it was a 3 link comment.
They are a 3 link stock. How are they not. They have a single mounting point to the frame and are one bar to the axle no matter if it mounts in 2 places or not the bars are one piece. The 2 mounts are, as I am sure you are aware, is to control wrap. The 3 bar is the pan hard.
5 link is not what is stock, you need 5 separate bars, non connected.

 

[tbsimmons]

So for a DIY setup, why aren't guys making the traction bars with a shackle on the front mount of the traction bar like the trail/off road trucks do? Then you'd get better articulation and still control the wrap since that'd be moving the bar on a different plane than the shackle wants to go.

But the ultimate setup would be a 4 link with a wishbone


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I will bite.
Because what is going to control the bar from moving forward and or backward. You sure you are not thinking of sway bars that have quick disconnects?

 

[Breaking Habits]

If it was a 3 link comment.
They are a 3 link stock. How are they not. They have a single mounting point to the frame and are one bar to the axle no matter if it mounts in 2 places or not the bars are one piece. The 2 mounts are, as I am sure you are aware, is to control wrap. The 3 bar is the pan hard.
5 link is not what is stock, you need 5 separate bars, non connected.

I'm totally in left field here, let me post Davids ORIGINAL post that you edited.

"Same concept on why a 4 linked front end on these trucks isn't the greatest"

You changed that to 3 linked. He was talking about the people that bolt on these "4 link conversions" and dont understand why their trucks bump steer and body roll...

They are in terminology a 3 linked system from the factory, I am not arguing that.

I was just putting more to why the "termed 4 link" (technically a 5 link) conversions do not perform that well and cannot properly articulate.

Like I said, I dont think you picked up the context in which I was commenting?

 

[Coueshunter]

:doh: If this is what you think, then there's no way you'll understand reality. By your logic there wouldn't be a need for a slip yoke on the driveshaft.

is the axle end of a traction bar farther forward or back at full compression? Essentially would it be forward of axle center or back under compression?