Charles, Lets talk Tuners

[neverkickn]

Oh i see. You took them down to resize.

 

[MRT1]

Oh i see. You took them down to resize.

This will take a while, there is a great deal to process.

 

[oldschool]

opcorn:

I don't think it is dirty at all. This thread could go very good or very bad. It is all in the hands of the people who respond. This could be a huge learning experience or a major tuner war. Hopefully it turns out to benefit everyone.

 

[Vengeance]

I am starting this thread in an effort to not ruin the original posters thread of the “EGTs getting up there” post.

This thread is to bring to light the allegations brought forth by Charles of DP-Tuners excessive timing and to also solicit his and others expertise of maps that I will post. I purchased calibrations in July of 2009 from the following tuners; Swamps Diesel, Gearhead Automotive, Total Diesel Performance, Beans Diesel Performance, Power Hungry Performance and DP-Tuner.

The sole purpose of this thread is to reveal timing tables and maps from all of the above listed tuners so all can view and make an informed comparison. DP-Tuner is just one of six and I will post maps from all tuners and we will all see who is running what for timing. This is not a thread for a tuner war so please do not post you opinions. I want to post hard data only and then discuss the individual maps. This is where you can really shine Charles; please give your opinion to each map.

Before we get started a few details need to be noted.

1. I believe that the maps that Charles posted from DP-Tuner have a date of October 2007

2. Charles stated that the maximum allowable timing advance scalar on his DP tune was set to 135 degrees. I have no doubt it was due to the fact that 135 is a stock scalar value and at that time tuners had not discovered using that function as a timing limiter. If you Charles did indeed know that in 2007 you did not share that information with your buds at Swamps. All of the calibrations that were listed above purchased in 2009 with the exception of DP-Tuner have 135 degrees as the maximum allowable timing advance scalar. The DP-Tuner calibration was purchased in February of 2008 and has a maximum allowable timing advance scalar of 28 degrees. I have no idea when DP-Tuner started using this function to limit timing but based on my calibrations and purchase dates I will say he was ahead of the curve in comparison to the other five tuners. That being said I would say anyone with a DP tune dated after February 2008 will have a limit set to their tune.

3. I will start posting maps tonight and tomorrow.

Again, lets keep this a technical discussion.

First off, there are a lot of variables that you haven't addressed.

1. Are you comparing maps from econo, tow, heavy tow, street, extreme, sled pull????

2. Are these for a completely stock truck other than a chip? And I assume, these are all from a TDE1 code?

3. I know that I have, and am quite sure that most of the other tuners listed have, made a lot of changes in tuning since 2009, so that should also be taken into consideration.

4. You have left off a few very good tuners as well, David at DI, Chris B at TSD, and Cale at Tyrant.

Your comparison in the tunes will carry a lot more influence if you address the above listed factors. And lastly, the main thing to be considered, is what your actual intent in posting this information is, that motive will also be a very important factor.

 

[Big Bore]

The sole purpose of this thread is to...

2. Charles stated that the maximum allowable timing advance scalar on his DP tune was set to 135 degrees.

As soon as I read this, I knew you had absolutely no intentions of trying to make an objective thread, since out of the three timing parameters Charles mentioned in his post, you chose the least significant one to use in the discussion you disingenuously framed here as a simple map comparison.

This thread was started purely and simply to try and discredit Charles, and the fact the mods didn't pick up on that right away and point it out is disappointing to say the least, as it shows either a lack of paying attention, or lack of knowledge of Charles prior comments being addressed by the OP and exactly how that affects this discussion. Veiling your attempt to do so is laughingly transparent if a person has any reading comprehension. Based on a previous conversation with you, this is just another example of you attacking someone while feigning innocence by claiming to be simply asking questions.

It's no wonder Charles rarely bothers to post useful information anymore. Despite his rather direct internet mannerisms, he is quite possibly the most knowledgeable person there is concerning tuning for our trucks.

You on the other hand are very good at copying and pasting useless information in a useless thread that the mods have somehow been duped into labeling "technical".

 

[Arisley]

I removed the graphs. Please do not post anymore graphs until a decision has been reached by us.

 

[MRT1]

First off, there are a lot of variables that you haven't addressed.

1. Are you comparing maps from econo, tow, heavy tow, street, extreme, sled pull????

2. Are these for a completely stock truck other than a chip? And I assume, these are all from a TDE1 code?

3. I know that I have, and am quite sure that most of the other tuners listed have, made a lot of changes in tuning since 2009, so that should also be taken into consideration.

4. You have left off a few very good tuners as well, David at DI, Chris B at TSD, and Cale at Tyrant.

Your comparison in the tunes will carry a lot more influence if you address the above listed factors. And lastly, the main thing to be considered, is what your actual intent in posting this information is, that motive will also be a very important factor.

All valid points, the only motive is to allow for comparison. I don't mean to let others off per say, I have not purchased calibrations from them.

 

[MRT1]

As soon as I read this, I knew you had absolutely no intentions of trying to make an objective thread, since out of the three timing parameters Charles mentioned in his post, you chose the least significant one to use in the discussion you disingenuously framed here as a simple map comparison.

This thread was started purely and simply to try and discredit Charles, and the fact the mods didn't pick up on that right away and point it out is disappointing to say the least, as it shows either a lack of paying attention, or lack of knowledge of Charles prior comments being addressed by the OP and exactly how that affects this discussion. Veiling your attempt to do so is laughingly transparent if a person has any reading comprehension. Based on a previous conversation with you, this is just another example of you attacking someone while feigning innocence by claiming to be simply asking questions.

It's no wonder Charles rarely bothers to post useful information anymore. Despite his rather direct internet mannerisms, he is quite possibly the most knowledgeable person there is concerning tuning for our trucks.

You on the other hand are very good at copying and pasting useless information in a useless thread that the mods have somehow been duped into labeling "technical".

Take a chill pill, no one is saying Charles it not intelligent. The posting of the graphs was for Charles to intemperate them for all. He is one of the the few individuals that can do so. Charles is extremely intelligent and certainly does not need to you to defend him.

 

[Powerstroked162]

To the OP, how many trucks have you tuned?

 

[MRT1]

To the OP, how many trucks have you tuned?

Just my own, I had no intention of giving my interpretation or opinion of the posted maps.

 

[Big Bore]

Just to make sure anyone who hasn't read the other thread has ALL the facts, I posted a larger section of Charles original comment. To pick the 135* timing scale out of that as being anything other than the incidental comment Charles meant it to be is hilariously ignorant of how important his prior comments are.

2. Charles stated that the maximum allowable timing advance scalar on his DP tune was set to 135 degrees.

FACTS:

The EXACT program I was running the day I said I was running 28* max has a MAXIMUM base timing value of 8.5* @ 3000rpm.

The program taken from my 550 has a MAXIMUM base timing value of 12* @ 3000rpm.

Right off the bat Jody's tow program from my 550 is running another 3.5 degrees at 3000rpm.

But it gets better folks. The EOT modifier table I've always SCREAMED at you people? Well, in my program it is set to 1. Period. Everywhere, just good old 1. This is 1ms of offset. At 3000rpm this equates to 18* of advance. Coupled with the 8.5 degree base timing, this puts me at 26.5* of timing.

Now in Jody's file from my 550? At an engine oil temp between 0 and 200*F and 3000psi, we are looking at an injection offset value of 1.418ms. This equates to an advance value of 25.52 degrees. Pair that with the 12* base advance and you're looking at 37.5 degrees of advance at 3000rpm.


As a safety, I had the maximum allowable timing parameter set to 28. Looking at the file from my 550, Jody had it set to 135 degrees maximum allowable advance. Not going to stop anything.



This was a single, towing file. Having briefly looked at some others I know for a fact that this one was tame in comparison.

My 550 was running over 40 degrees of advance at rpm values greater than 3000.

 

[Powerstroked162]

Just my own, I had no intention of giving my interpretation or opinion of the posted maps.

Interesting. I'd be curious whose files you modded as your own....

And trust me, Im well aware you have no intention of giving any interpretation or opinion on tuning because you don't have any knowledge to back it up. Why you keep posting is beyond my ability to understand.

Big Bore has you nailed, to a "T"

 

[BDP Sales]

Interesting. I'd be curious whose files you modded as your own....

And trust me, Im well aware you have no intention of giving any interpretation or opinion on tuning because you don't have any knowledge to back it up. Why you keep posting is beyond my ability to understand.

Big Bore has you nailed, to a "T"

LOL

 

[kyle43335]

If you thought it was not right them why would you not post your feelings when another tuner has his maps being posted? Is it only not right when it is happening to you?

o so this is some pay pack. some people ......

 

[TyCorr]

Just to make sure anyone who hasn't read the other thread has ALL the facts, I posted a larger section of Charles original comment. To pick the 135* timing scale out of that as being anything other than the incidental comment Charles meant it to be is hilariously ignorant of how important his prior comments are.

Thats where the argument went off the road for me as well. Leaving the 135 degree value in place in a tune that is adding fuel is pointless. Why allow 135° in a tune? The people opposing what Charles posted appeared either not to truly understand what he said or picked a pointless argument.

 

[MRT1]

Interesting. I'd be curious whose files you modded as your own....

And trust me, Im well aware you have no intention of giving any interpretation or opinion on tuning because you don't have any knowledge to back it up. Why you keep posting is beyond my ability to understand.

Big Bore has you nailed, to a "T"

Are you not aware that PHP has do it yourself tuning that can be purchased. You do not know me therefore you forming an opinion on someones intelligence based on the internet shows you ignorance not mine. What criteria do you use to rank intelligence? I had no intention of interpretation because everyone should decide for themselves. What exactly is wrong with giving others the opportunity to see timing maps?
If an individual such as yourself would not respond to this post it would go away, stop posting and let it die to the archives.

 

[MRT1]

Thats where the argument went off the road for me as well. Leaving the 135 degree value in place in a tune that is adding fuel is pointless. Why allow 135° in a tune? The people opposing what Charles posted appeared either not to truly understand what he said or picked a pointless argument.

Charles was not incorrect, at that time all the tuners I purchased from had that same value left in place.

 

[MRT1]

o so this is some pay pack. some people ......

No payback, but if it is ok for one then why not all.

 

[Big Bore]

Thats where the argument went off the road for me as well. Leaving the 135 degree value in place in a tune that is adding fuel is pointless. Why allow 135° in a tune? The people opposing what Charles posted appeared either not to truly understand what he said or picked a pointless argument.

Apparently I wasn't as clear as I thought. Please reread Charles comments prior to the 135* comment, they are MUCH more significant than the 135* issue that was singled out here. It's almost a shame he even mentioned the 135* scale, as it has detracted completely from the real problems with his tuning. No graphs are needed to see it.

 

[kyle43335]

No payback, but if it is ok for one then why not all.

your a common idiot,with an axe to grind.

take your bull chit somewhere else...