Compounds?

Cutting-Edge Diesel · Feb 13, 2016

Thanks for the recommendation guys! But I'm pretty backed up on fab work currently. So wait time is an issue with my compounds.

Tyler@Street Diesel Performance · Feb 13, 2016

the vgt compounds that MPD built was ran and was on craigs old dually, the concept worked but the problem became when they needed to control the vgt. i believe they had to got to a strategy that didnt use the ebp table to control the vgt thats where the problem come to selling it to a customer is that they would have to convert the truck to that strategy

Extended Power · Feb 13, 2016

With the new Borg chargers that can be had brand new for around $900.00, why even fight with trying to use a vgt style turbo?
If you live a block or two from a tuner, great, but for anyone else trying to get changes made for a vgt compound turbo setup, would be a true PITA.

6.0 Tech · Feb 13, 2016

This wa just a thought, i dont know what else to say. It was just brought up one day bull chittin, and seemed like a good idea. Plus, as i said previously, i work a lot with stock 6.4s, and thats what they run, so figured if it workedhalf ass decent on those, it would probably work pretty good on a 6.0 too.

As far as changing strategies, would it be like changing to a 6.4 stategy?

Tyler@Street Diesel Performance · Feb 16, 2016

6.0 Tech said:
This wa just a thought, i dont know what else to say. It was just brought up one day bull chittin, and seemed like a good idea. Plus, as i said previously, i work a lot with stock 6.4s, and thats what they run, so figured if it workedhalf ass decent on those, it would probably work pretty good on a 6.0 too.

As far as changing strategies, would it be like changing to a 6.4 stategy?

No there is 1 6liter strategy that doesn't use the ebp sensor to control vgt if I'm remember right

Mdub707 · Feb 16, 2016

PHP did a ton of work with strategy rollbacks, I don't think it's that big of a deal to get it changed around anymore. I'd be surprised if that was the only issue with controlling the VGT on the 6.0. Definitely would like to know more about it though, just seems like no one could ever really make it work.

KCTurbos · Feb 16, 2016

There are multiple issues on the "tuning" side. The boost/ebp/vane position are all controlled off of the ebp sensor (for most strategies that tuners use)

There is no vane position sensor on the 6.0, this also means there is no real "desired vane position". Most other platforms have a desired vane position which makes it easier to tune.

Also there is no "desired boost" in the 6.0 tables. Once again most other platforms have a "desired boost" in which you can simply put in the boost number.

The problem with the 6.0 only using ebp is the EBP only reads up to 40psi (compounds quickly go above that). So you basically lose complete control over the compounds once ebp goes above 40psi.

That is also one of the big reasons that vgt turbos struggle to make much more than 40psi consistently (even though they are capable of more as we see from the dmax guys)

We have been working with a few tuners to learn as much as we can and see if we can figure out some sort of work around. I think we are close and should know more very soon.

nighthawk285 · Feb 16, 2016

KCTurbos said:
We have been working with a few tuners to learn as much as we can and see if we can figure out some sort of work around. I think we are close and should know more very soon.

I'd be excited to see what that could potentially bring with my coming setup

6.0 Tech · Feb 16, 2016

Tyler@Street Diesel Performance said:
No there is 1 6liter strategy that doesn't use the ebp sensor to control vgt if I'm remember right

Yeah i forgot about that, the early ones use an inferred ebp.

Thanks for all the input guys i appreciate it all.

It makes sense about the ebp being maxxed out, as charlie was saying, but does the ebp have a max out point on the inferred strategy? As far as no vane position sensor or boost desired pid, doesnt the pcm use the vgt % ot a voltage reading to determine where its at? I hardly ever check voltage at the shop so im not sur if there is a voltage pid or not, but wouldnt percent be sufficient, as it is pwm the solenoid? It would basically just command it full open, to 85% once inferred backpressure hit what it was looking for correct? And lets say for chits and grins that its gated to 50-55psi, once again, i dont know anything about gates so im just throwing a number out there, would that be enough to spool a 475 with the vanes fully open on a vgt?

Mdub707 · Feb 17, 2016

Found a post on PHP's forum from Jay about the rollbacks that might help shed some light:

"Basically from the years 2005 til 2007, Ford issues PCM calibrations that existed in the VXCF*** family. Depending on when that vehicle was flashed, whether or not it was a F450 with 4.88 gears, your standard federal 49 state F250 / F350, California model, cab and chassis, etc... will dictate what the last three alpha numeric characters are. On my personal 6.0L PowerStroke, I purchased it with VXCF9H4 as the original PCM code from Ford. We will use this for our example. This is the newest ford updated calibration available which was designed to fix several issues. Only problem with that is the methodology behind the fix.

Chronologically, Ford released the updates VXCF0***, VXCF4***, VXCF5***, VXCF7***, VXCF9***
There was many files in between these years, but for the purpose of this post, these will suffice. Plus they are the most common codes I see so hopefully many of you can relate if you know your strategy.

For the purpose of the PCM Rollback, Bill analyzed each of the individual strategies and selected what he believes to be the best suited as a base. The calibration set in which he deemed best for this series is VXCF4***. Here is why:

VXCF0*** isnt terribly by and extent however it does possess it's share of issues since it was the first strategy released. Most of these issues were in the form of 'inopportune' shift strategies / attributes that are not able to be modified in the tuning.

VXCF4*** and VXCF5*** both function using the EBP sensor to actuate the veins in the turbo. Due to the turbo running off true readings from the engine, it is naturally going to run more efficiently to produce better throttle response, power, and fuel economy

VXCF7*** and VXCF9*** both operate off what is called "Inferred EBP". This was the Ford engineer's choice to fix the exhaust back pressure(EBP) sensor from clogging. Basically the concept behind the inferred EBP was to make the engine run without a mandatory reading from the EBP sensor. This function allows the veins in the turbo to regulate the exhaust back pressure based off an estimated EBP MAP rather than how the engine sensor is actually reading. Does the PCM ignoring the EBP sensor fix the issue of the sensor becoming clogged? Yes. Does it cause issues for vehicle performance and fuel economy? Yes.

These examples are just the tip of the iceberg in relations to the changes made from one update to another. I believe it serves well enough to explain why we rollback the PCM calibration the way we do.

For those that need the cliff notes version, VXCF9H4 rolls back to VXCF4H2. ' VXCF4H2 run gooood ' (Read in your best cave man voice)

- Jay"

6.0 Tech · Feb 17, 2016

Thanks for the info :thumbsup:

sethafrye · Feb 20, 2016

So I just read this post. I am actually in the process of doing stock vgt and s475 compound. It's been about 4 months working on it, and had to pretty much start over few times. We are actually doing rear mount for LP, it's setup in my bed running stack straight from it. Waiting on few parts that will be here Monday. If wanted I'll keep y'all posted as much as possible. I'm running 190/75 injectors airdog 2 and RR

Sent from my VS986 using Tapatalk

6.0 Tech · Feb 20, 2016

That'd be great, keep us posted, thanks man! :thumbsup:

swinky · Feb 20, 2016

sethafrye said:
So I just read this post. I am actually in the process of doing stock vgt and s475 compound. It's been about 4 months working on it, and had to pretty much start over few times. We are actually doing rear mount for LP, it's setup in my bed running stack straight from it. Waiting on few parts that will be here Monday. If wanted I'll keep y'all posted as much as possible. I'm running 190/75 injectors airdog 2 and RR

Sent from my VS986 using Tapatalk

I'm pretty interested in that. Would like to see some pictures.

Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk

sethafrye · Feb 20, 2016

I'll post some next week, I don't have any right now

Sent from my VS986 using Tapatalk

Merc82 · Feb 23, 2016

I'don't love to see some pictures as well.

sethafrye · Feb 23, 2016

I'll be taking parts up today, I might can post some pics today. I have to say that my truck is a work truck, not a beauty queen lol.

Sent from my VS986 using Tapatalk