02BigD
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Interesting, I've been running Amsoil, but was planning on giving Schaffer's a chance.
Custom HPOP lines
- Thread starter V-Ref
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Interesting, I've been running Amsoil, but was planning on giving Schaffer's a chance.
Chvyrkr
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Well 9000 is 5-40w. I figured I'd give it a shot, since I was pleased with the results in my wife's 6oh.
I'm gonna do 7000 next time in mine, it's a 15-40w so, I expect I'll like that better.
I'm gonna do 7000 next time in mine, it's a 15-40w so, I expect I'll like that better.
V-Ref
Active member
H29006 was what Alaska Rubber & Hose came up with.
For all the fittings (to convert to JIC from STC) & hoses....it was less than ONE factory line.
Looks like a 90 deg ORB-JIC fitting saves you about an 1/2" of installed height vs the factory 90 deg STC fittings....easing conflicts with fuel systems, turbos, elec harnesses..etc.
Will get a pic of it all together after I get the head back on and the motor all cleaned up and back together.
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psduser1
Well-known member
:toast:
Garbage_Mechanic
Member
I'm really not trying to rain on your parade here, just trying to keep you and others safe. I'm not sure your hose supplier did you a favor here. Yes, the working pressure is 5,800 and the the burst pressure is 23,200 lbs. But there are many factors to hose life. SAE 100R2 is a basic hose. I don't have time right now to refresh my self on 100R2 but I know I have used it for engine oil hoses for instance for a remote oil cooler or trans cooler lines and it was a poor choice. The life isn't there. HOT engine oil is not the same as a hydraulic system! This hose is ok by the pressure specs but the life won't be there. And sorry to say, in my experience Weatherhead is not as technically advanced as Parker or Aeroquip, with Gates third and the others bringing up last place. 35 years of hydraulics and cutom equipment taught me some lessons. I'd sure like to get my hands on the hose or assembly part # for an original line!
V-Ref
Active member
Garbage
Thank you for your opinion. I will definitely research the Parker and Aeroquip solutions...maybe I'll get 4 of those made as my "spares" if/or when these go....but for now I'm gonna run this H290.
Under what conditions did the H290 you use fail..at the crimp? Poor abrasion resistance? On a radius?
I too don't want to lead anyone astray....I provided the spec of 250F engine oil, with a 4k working pressure, and at least a 3:1 safety factor for burst, and a min radius of 6". They came back with H290.
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Thank you for your opinion. I will definitely research the Parker and Aeroquip solutions...maybe I'll get 4 of those made as my "spares" if/or when these go....but for now I'm gonna run this H290.
Under what conditions did the H290 you use fail..at the crimp? Poor abrasion resistance? On a radius?
I too don't want to lead anyone astray....I provided the spec of 250F engine oil, with a 4k working pressure, and at least a 3:1 safety factor for burst, and a min radius of 6". They came back with H290.
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Im gonna disagree here with garbage mechanic here... I've currently work for and sell hose for a manufacturer of hydraulic hose and have for 30 years.
As long as the hose assembly is made correctly, for your application, a 100R2 hose from a pressure perspective would almost be overkill. The HP oil supply system in a PSD is not an impulsing application. The main thing I'd be concerned with your selection is the temperature rating. Id want at least 250F, but the modern CPE tube products have 300F. The old school nitrile construction 212F hoses will be marginal under exposure over time.
Im not going to get into a pissing contest on what mfgrs are best as there are good hose mfgrs with good products and I know guys at all of the majors. Parker is an awesome marketer of hose. But, I have extensive background on how we test/develop materials, hose and hose/coupling interface at Gates and no one exceeds the benchmark performance our products.
(for disclosure, I use a Megatech 3000 hose assembly on my HP oil crossover and will eventually move all of the hoses that way. This hose is catalog rated to 300F, 3K psi, but is peak and square wave impulse tested to 4K and bursts at 12K minimum.)
As long as the hose assembly is made correctly, for your application, a 100R2 hose from a pressure perspective would almost be overkill. The HP oil supply system in a PSD is not an impulsing application. The main thing I'd be concerned with your selection is the temperature rating. Id want at least 250F, but the modern CPE tube products have 300F. The old school nitrile construction 212F hoses will be marginal under exposure over time.
Im not going to get into a pissing contest on what mfgrs are best as there are good hose mfgrs with good products and I know guys at all of the majors. Parker is an awesome marketer of hose. But, I have extensive background on how we test/develop materials, hose and hose/coupling interface at Gates and no one exceeds the benchmark performance our products.
(for disclosure, I use a Megatech 3000 hose assembly on my HP oil crossover and will eventually move all of the hoses that way. This hose is catalog rated to 300F, 3K psi, but is peak and square wave impulse tested to 4K and bursts at 12K minimum.)
Garbage_Mechanic
Member
It sounds like you did your homework. What happened in two applications that seemed so simple was premature heat failure. On a Big Cam Cummins remote oil filter 100R2 would turn into dry spagheti in 1500 to 2000 hours running. And that was at 80 psi max. For some reason it is always easier to make up a quick 100R2 crimped hose assy for things such as air compressor engine oil feeds, and they never last long, compared to the original hose. On Allison Transmission cooler circuits, nearly all trash trucks use cloth covered -16 hose for the trans cooler, replacing it with 100R2 cuts it down from 3 years to 1 yr life. There is something different about hot engine and trans oil that is different than hydraulic oil. How long do the OE HPOP lines last? Anyone have the info on the tag on an original HPOP hose?
Garbage_Mechanic
Member
MANKOLE: I actually usally prefer Gates for most things. It probably isn't that they don't have product for the more difficult apps, just that Parker has better info in their catalog.
The OE hoses were well selected-- I wont dispute that. They are very robust, especially from a temp standpoint. Heat aging is something that we discuss with customers all the time. This is what separates the men from boys... there air is very thin where someone can pass a J1405 hot oil circulation test. Its 1000 hours at 300F..
What we have to remember is what was available in the early 90s for hoses. Gates had nothing then that would have done what the OE hoses did in some tests. Im not familiar with the programs, but guessing that the guys who competed for the 7.3 programs had special developed hoses for those applications.
What we have to remember is what was available in the early 90s for hoses. Gates had nothing then that would have done what the OE hoses did in some tests. Im not familiar with the programs, but guessing that the guys who competed for the 7.3 programs had special developed hoses for those applications.
no worries... Parker does an excellent job in their catalogs, distributor marketing, and product line management. We can learn from them everyday. Engineering, now that is another story... carry on!
Garbage_Mechanic
Member
What do you think is different between hot engine oil and hot hydraulic oil based on my observation?
I can't recall the product name just now (and Gates has added a lot of new higher tech one lately and I havent had Gates in my shop for a while) but is basically the same as 100R2 butthe stripe is blue instead of green maybe megatech 1000? It was doing much better as trans cooler hoses.
Nice discussing hose with a pro...
I can't recall the product name just now (and Gates has added a lot of new higher tech one lately and I havent had Gates in my shop for a while) but is basically the same as 100R2 butthe stripe is blue instead of green maybe megatech 1000? It was doing much better as trans cooler hoses.
Nice discussing hose with a pro...
Yeah, Im an old hoser..
Aside of engine and hyd oil being much different in viscosity, we dont treat them much differently from a material compatability perspective. Biodegradable hydraulic fluids are the toughest from a compatability point. The newest CPE family tubed hoses do the highest performance work from a material compatability and temp rating. All of our 'Megatech' line products were the first designed specifically for heavy truck system requirements.
Megatech 3000; high pressure oil, like power steering, 1000 hour 300F oil circulation
Megatech 1000; oil circulation, air brake
Megatech 500; hot oil
Megatech 250; hot oil (trans oil cooling)
Megatech LOC; push on, for hot oil
New LOC; for diesel lines (not CPE)
You might be thinking of the G2XH; its a high performance CPE 100R2 hose for use with phospate ester fluids (biodegradable)
Aside of engine and hyd oil being much different in viscosity, we dont treat them much differently from a material compatability perspective. Biodegradable hydraulic fluids are the toughest from a compatability point. The newest CPE family tubed hoses do the highest performance work from a material compatability and temp rating. All of our 'Megatech' line products were the first designed specifically for heavy truck system requirements.
Megatech 3000; high pressure oil, like power steering, 1000 hour 300F oil circulation
Megatech 1000; oil circulation, air brake
Megatech 500; hot oil
Megatech 250; hot oil (trans oil cooling)
Megatech LOC; push on, for hot oil
New LOC; for diesel lines (not CPE)
You might be thinking of the G2XH; its a high performance CPE 100R2 hose for use with phospate ester fluids (biodegradable)
V-Ref
Active member
Where were you two before I got H290? 
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Garbage_Mechanic
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MANDOKLE I sent you a PM
Tom S
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How nice it is to see a discussion that goes like this despite people not having the same thoughts on the subject. Kudos to those posting.
V-Ref
Active member
I agree Tom. Thanks guys. However I fail or succeed with this endeavor...I'll share in attempt to encourage dialogue like this.
So I got the same hydraulic shop to braze me up this fitting for my crossover "T" for the ICP sensor.
right to left...
#5 male ORB (forward port on drivers head) to a #5 female ORB (for the ICP sensor) to male #6 JIC (for Mr crossover hose to the front port on the pax head)
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So I got the same hydraulic shop to braze me up this fitting for my crossover "T" for the ICP sensor.
right to left...
#5 male ORB (forward port on drivers head) to a #5 female ORB (for the ICP sensor) to male #6 JIC (for Mr crossover hose to the front port on the pax head)
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chris1978
New member
I used Aeroquip FC469
Max operating pressure 4000PSI
Burst Pressure 16000PSI
Operating Temp Range -65 to 400 ºF
Basically I copied the Stealth 4 line kit and covered the hoses in 1/2 clear heatshrink.
http://www.stealthpumps.com/SI_7_3L_Billet_Series_Stealth_P/IMAG011A.JPG
I'd have to do some digging but I have my parts list somewhere...
Max operating pressure 4000PSI
Burst Pressure 16000PSI
Operating Temp Range -65 to 400 ºF
Basically I copied the Stealth 4 line kit and covered the hoses in 1/2 clear heatshrink.
http://www.stealthpumps.com/SI_7_3L_Billet_Series_Stealth_P/IMAG011A.JPG
I'd have to do some digging but I have my parts list somewhere...
Tom S
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Were crimp on 90deg ends not an option so you have fewer connections?
Chris, those are good looking hoses. Looks to be the same product that Dale Isley (tymar) used in his HPX kit also.
Tom,
From a cost (and availability) standpoint, we try to plumb with the hose couplings straight, use the adapters for bending, and use JIC swivels when you need a swivel.
V-Ref,
Very interested in the outcome of your project. Ive always wondered if the response of the sensor feedback would change if moved and how the pump to head hose plumbing could affect system response. Ive just been lazy on my truck so I dont know when I would ever get to it...hell, replacing a GP relay seems to be a project LOL
Tom,
From a cost (and availability) standpoint, we try to plumb with the hose couplings straight, use the adapters for bending, and use JIC swivels when you need a swivel.
V-Ref,
Very interested in the outcome of your project. Ive always wondered if the response of the sensor feedback would change if moved and how the pump to head hose plumbing could affect system response. Ive just been lazy on my truck so I dont know when I would ever get to it...hell, replacing a GP relay seems to be a project LOL
