Vader's Fury
Active member
Good info in here. Looking into this myself as the stock hose can be a pita.
Custom HPOP lines
- Thread starter V-Ref
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V-Ref
Active member
Some more info I found out today....
Intl carries our HPOP lines. They were $95 a piece, vs. the $135 I was quoted from Ford with a cash account discount.
Intl part # 1880061C1 is the one with straight STC fittings on both ends
Intl part # 1880070C1 is the one with a 90 deg STC on one end and straight STC fitting on the other end
I've got no doubt this has been nugged out already on a forum some where, just putting it here for a good reference.
Intl carries our HPOP lines. They were $95 a piece, vs. the $135 I was quoted from Ford with a cash account discount.
Intl part # 1880061C1 is the one with straight STC fittings on both ends
Intl part # 1880070C1 is the one with a 90 deg STC on one end and straight STC fitting on the other end
I've got no doubt this has been nugged out already on a forum some where, just putting it here for a good reference.
Garbage_Mechanic
Member
MandKOLE, what does Gates have that matches that Aeroquip? And no it doesn't have to be bare stainless.....Just perform the same...
I would not think twice about running the Megatech 3000 and its on my truck.
The downside is that its not advertised/tested to be more than a 3000psi hose--no demand for it. We know its capable of far more--even though we see moments above 3k, the PSDs HPO application will not stress it. Its a full 2 braid wire pack thats like our 100R2 hoses-- in -6, this hose will impulse at 5K. Plus it has the hot oil capability and meets J1405.
The downside is that its not advertised/tested to be more than a 3000psi hose--no demand for it. We know its capable of far more--even though we see moments above 3k, the PSDs HPO application will not stress it. Its a full 2 braid wire pack thats like our 100R2 hoses-- in -6, this hose will impulse at 5K. Plus it has the hot oil capability and meets J1405.
Chvyrkr
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Just to throw it out there...
I saw this regularly with just an Adrenaline pump... By regularly I mean the top of 1st gear WOT, top of 2nd, and every time I backed out of heavy throttle.
So, I'd be worried with a hose only rated for 3k.
This was a typical 1st - 2nd data log... (much slower data rate)
I saw this regularly with just an Adrenaline pump... By regularly I mean the top of 1st gear WOT, top of 2nd, and every time I backed out of heavy throttle.
So, I'd be worried with a hose only rated for 3k.
This was a typical 1st - 2nd data log... (much slower data rate)
What kills hose (at the hose/coupling interface) is the dynamic impulsing--the constant zero to proof rate hammering. Today, the test protocol for this hose is 133% of WP (4000) in a peaking wave form impluse and a square wave (peak, hold, drop) for 1.3 million cycles. It takes 3 weeks straight to run this test. Then, the hose is burst.
The PSD application is very 'lazy' from a pressure stress standpoint. The oil is thin, pressure ramp rate is fairly slow and the duration is fairly short. If you dont strongly impluse the hose, it will live a long time. We have -6 static pressure jack hoses that sit at 10,000 for days on end but would not live in a dynamic application.
At the end of the day, the heat is still the biggest issue (that is why teflon was originally used--there was no real stout rubber hose at the time). The factory hose is basically a large version of a typical turbo oil supply hose.
The PSD application is very 'lazy' from a pressure stress standpoint. The oil is thin, pressure ramp rate is fairly slow and the duration is fairly short. If you dont strongly impluse the hose, it will live a long time. We have -6 static pressure jack hoses that sit at 10,000 for days on end but would not live in a dynamic application.
At the end of the day, the heat is still the biggest issue (that is why teflon was originally used--there was no real stout rubber hose at the time). The factory hose is basically a large version of a typical turbo oil supply hose.
V-Ref
Active member
Here's the tag from "old" style w/braided hose with one 90 deg fitting
Here's the tag from the "new" style w/ the brown abrasion cover and one 90 deg fitting
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V-Ref
Active member
If some "hoser" out there could cross reference any of the above to a Aeroquip/Gates/Parker #......well thanks in advance :beer:
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V-Ref
Active member
Done for now.
Parts list:
Head fittings-
Pax head rear fitting: #5 ORB male to #6 JIC male 90 deg
Pax head front fitting: #5 ORB male to #6 JIC male straight
Drivers head rear fitting: #5 ORB Male to #6 JIC Male 90 deg
Drivers head front fitting: #5 ORB male to #6 JIC 45 deg
Pump fittings-
Drivers front port:#6 ORB male to #6 JIC male 45 deg
Drivers middle and last port: #6 ORB male to #6 JIC male 90 deg
Rear port: #6 ORB male to #6 JIC male straight
Hoses-
All hoses are Eaton H290 #6
I'd post lengths...but they could lead you astray. Strongly suggest you'd get a piece of the hose your gonna use and use it along with your head/pump fittings in place to get exact mock up lengths.
Balance crossover was a custom brazed deal. #5 ORB male to #6 JIC male fitting in the head. Then a 13" hose between the two male #6 JICs.
Will post up once it's running. When I was researching it, the subject lacked content and expertise...but was full of opinion
Hope this helps someone else with their project.
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V-Ref
Active member
Another pic
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V-Ref
Active member
Back when I was researching this...I couldn't dig up much info. I promised I'd share what I came up with, so here it is. I tried to label all the hoses and fittings to further discussion or any questions down the road.
Notes:
Hose material selection is part science, and part legend and lore. The specs are science and out there....it's the experience part you'll have to wade through. Folks will have brand (gates, parker, aeroquip, eaton) loyalty as part of experiences they've had, but all the hose mfgs make hoses to appreciable spec for this project. Ultimately, find a reputable hose shop you can trust, and find that one tech in that shop, that knows there stuff. 300 deg F oil, at 4000 psi working, with a 3 to 1 safety factor is what I told folks I needed. The three different shops recommended three different products.
Bend radius will not only just effect how tight you can wrap the hose to make a engine compartment constraint, but will effect the criticality to hose length precision. I had to have 2 of these hoses cut down. The material I selected for these hoses was very cost effective, but it also required hose length to be within 1/2" of what it needed. Not a forgiving hose in this regard. A more expensive hose...that isn't forgiving...you could find yourself spending more $$$ to get the hose length nats ass right.
I threw some #6 JIC Service Caps (like in the image below)in my roadside box, to ensure if you did have a hose failure, I could quickly remove the faulty line, cap off the two #6 JIC male fittings and be on my way. I'm thinking even if both lines off the same head went boom, the balance line ought to allow me to limp it home, as long as I kept the go pedal/ICP in check.
Hose #2 just touches the pax side TN plenum Y Boot V-band...so that has spiral guard wrapped around it, as does Hose #3 and #4 where they wrap around the drivers plenum and over each other. So I'd recommend you'd look real hard at install conflicts and chafing.
So far, zero leaks, truck starts quick, idles smooth, no leaks.
Hope it helps someone else down the road. :ford:
Notes:
Hose material selection is part science, and part legend and lore. The specs are science and out there....it's the experience part you'll have to wade through. Folks will have brand (gates, parker, aeroquip, eaton) loyalty as part of experiences they've had, but all the hose mfgs make hoses to appreciable spec for this project. Ultimately, find a reputable hose shop you can trust, and find that one tech in that shop, that knows there stuff. 300 deg F oil, at 4000 psi working, with a 3 to 1 safety factor is what I told folks I needed. The three different shops recommended three different products.
Bend radius will not only just effect how tight you can wrap the hose to make a engine compartment constraint, but will effect the criticality to hose length precision. I had to have 2 of these hoses cut down. The material I selected for these hoses was very cost effective, but it also required hose length to be within 1/2" of what it needed. Not a forgiving hose in this regard. A more expensive hose...that isn't forgiving...you could find yourself spending more $$$ to get the hose length nats ass right.
I threw some #6 JIC Service Caps (like in the image below)in my roadside box, to ensure if you did have a hose failure, I could quickly remove the faulty line, cap off the two #6 JIC male fittings and be on my way. I'm thinking even if both lines off the same head went boom, the balance line ought to allow me to limp it home, as long as I kept the go pedal/ICP in check.
Hose #2 just touches the pax side TN plenum Y Boot V-band...so that has spiral guard wrapped around it, as does Hose #3 and #4 where they wrap around the drivers plenum and over each other. So I'd recommend you'd look real hard at install conflicts and chafing.
So far, zero leaks, truck starts quick, idles smooth, no leaks.
Hope it helps someone else down the road. :ford:
psduser1
Well-known member
:thumbup:
Garbage_Mechanic
Member
This thread is awesome, I know hoses and I'm learning from it. I'm glad to see it because so many "improve" things without knowing what they are doing.
Here's a good question for all of you, what is the service life of the original hoses, the FC469 type. In hours, miles or years.......given they have no damage to the braid?
Vref, I think you are going after something I have been thinking about for a long time. HPOP response time and control accuracy. I think this is a bigger deal for stick trucks and of course drag trucks. Really curious how this performs. Being up to requested HPO pressure quicker has to improve throttle resonse and limit accelleration smoke. In theory of course. Now we need to prove it!
Here's a good question for all of you, what is the service life of the original hoses, the FC469 type. In hours, miles or years.......given they have no damage to the braid?
Vref, I think you are going after something I have been thinking about for a long time. HPOP response time and control accuracy. I think this is a bigger deal for stick trucks and of course drag trucks. Really curious how this performs. Being up to requested HPO pressure quicker has to improve throttle resonse and limit accelleration smoke. In theory of course. Now we need to prove it!
Very curious to see how all this works out for you vref.. kudos to putting your ideas to test. Honestly, Id play with this more, but I drive the truck so little that I wouldnt learn much and just cant get motivated. Good on ya..
GM, the FC469 teflon tube should perform very well over time. Many stock hoses have run 15+ years. 7-10,000 hours. Like all 2 braid hoses, how the friction layer is handled will support flex/impulse life or kill it. Every 2 braid hose has a layer of rubber (the friction) to keep the braid layers from cutting themselves in half. Fortunately, our application does not hammer the hose, but if you see a failure, its at the hose/coupling interface or a coupling fracture. Not aware of too many that have just burst failed.
GM, the FC469 teflon tube should perform very well over time. Many stock hoses have run 15+ years. 7-10,000 hours. Like all 2 braid hoses, how the friction layer is handled will support flex/impulse life or kill it. Every 2 braid hose has a layer of rubber (the friction) to keep the braid layers from cutting themselves in half. Fortunately, our application does not hammer the hose, but if you see a failure, its at the hose/coupling interface or a coupling fracture. Not aware of too many that have just burst failed.
vanderchevy18
New member
Tomorrow I'm ordering stuff for hard lines from Grainger. Their stainless jic fittings are rated for 6000 operating psi. The stainless tubing I found is rated for 4100 operating psi. It should work out pretty good.
Powerstroke Cowboy
Well-known member
What is the temp rating for 4100 working PSI?? What is the burst rating?
V-Ref
Active member
Vander...that'll be great to see all done. Send me a good pic...and I'll geek it all up with your notes from making the lines....make this thread the final stop for 7.3 PSD 4 line madness :beer:
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vanderchevy18
New member
It said 4100 @ 72°f and the temp ratings are -325 to 1500°.
http://m.grainger.com/mobile/product/Tubing-5LVR7
http://m.grainger.com/mobile/product/Tubing-5LVR7
Powerstroke Cowboy
Well-known member
Alright. Thanks! That should work. Would also look really nice. That would be clean!
