Custom HPOP lines

[mandkole]

Hose technology has come aways since these lines for first spec'd by Navi and Ford back in the early 90s. The OEM Aeroquip hose was developed to be as bullet proof, meet many requirements and easy to handle as possible but its not real available today. A good 275-300F tube, 3000 WP will be fine if the assembly is well built. These hoses dont see hammering impulse pressure that fatigues reinforcement and hose/coupling interfaces. Good 2 wire is all thats required--a 4 wire hose is overkill, wont bend tight enough and a bastard to work with.

I had our Gates Megatech 3000 (300F/J1405 test, 3000 psi, textile braid cover, is tested at 3900psi for 1.2M impulse cycles) on the truck for the HPX and will be moving all hoses that way at some point. Im in the business and dont know of a better hose for the HPO application. Unfortunately that hose is not real common in most distributors either..

 

[psduser1]

Mandkole, my only concern was the temperature rating. The 451 was rated at 212, the 721 at 257. Honestly, the tech at the distributer said the lower temp rating would be fine.
Maybe I'm worried about a little bit of nothing?
I do see 220-230 oiltemps during the summer, sometimes for extended periods, as in hours at a time.

 

[Mr.BigOil]

There is NO way I would run a hose that is rated below 300 degrees.
I prefer the new OEM lines with the brown protective sheath.

 

[mandkole]

Mandkole, my only concern was the temperature rating. The 451 was rated at 212, the 721 at 257. Honestly, the tech at the distributer said the lower temp rating would be fine.
Maybe I'm worried about a little bit of nothing?
I do see 220-230 oiltemps during the summer, sometimes for extended periods, as in hours at a time.

IMO, 212F is not enough. IIRC the OE hose is 400F. Heat soak on underhood plumbing is rough on hoses and our application can run the oil at 200+ for hours at a time. Heat aging is time accumulative. All time spent over the max temp limit (added up) ages the tube. Will it fail tomorrow? No, but the original properties of the material are quickly being broken down. Most hoses are put in the catalog with a 'temp range' based on the material package used, but not all 300F hoses are equal. To get a hose tube to meet the SAE J1405 hot oil circulation test for 1000+ hours takes considerable effort and very premium cross-linked poly ethelene (CPE) materials. Many CPEs and nitrile blend wont get it done.

 

[psduser1]

See if this works
Nope

 

[psduser1]

Here?

 

[gnxtc2]

IMO, 212F is not enough. IIRC the OE hose is 400F. Heat soak on underhood plumbing is rough on hoses and our application can run the oil at 200+ for hours at a time. Heat aging is time accumulative. All time spent over the max temp limit (added up) ages the tube. Will it fail tomorrow? No, but the original properties of the material are quickly being broken down. Most hoses are put in the catalog with a 'temp range' based on the material package used, but not all 300F hoses are equal. To get a hose tube to meet the SAE J1405 hot oil circulation test for 1000+ hours takes considerable effort and very premium cross-linked poly ethelene (CPE) materials. Many CPEs and nitrile blend wont get it done.

Towing my GN trailer yesterday, my oil temp was 215*.

Billy T.
gnxtc22aol.com

 

[psduser1]

I'm in the same boat, Billy.

 

[psduser1]

Doing some reading, looks like parker 436 is a better choice than the 722. It's a two wire braid, 4000 psi hose with a 2 1/2" minimum bend radius. 300* temp rating.
Best I could find thru parker, haven't checked the others yet.
Thoughts? besides brand, lol.

 

[lincolnlocker]

I'm in the same boat, Billy.

get the 180° t-stat will lower temps a fair amount... I barely see over 200° in my dually. ect and eot..

Towing my GN trailer yesterday, my oil temp was 215*.

Billy T.
gnxtc22aol.com

live life full throttle
but you want the oil to reach 212° at times so it will burn out any moisture in the oil anyway.

 

[V-Ref]

What's the psi safety factor? Is it rated for petroleum fluids? Those specs listed look good

 

[lincolnlocker]

What's the psi safety factor? Is it rated for petroleum fluids? Those specs listed look good

isnt it hydraulic oil line?

live life full throttle

 

[V-Ref]

isnt it hydraulic oil line?

live life full throttle

I dunno...that's kinda what I was asking...the Grey Beard hosers have me worried about running a non PTFE lined hose. I haven't had any issues as of yet but worried about that aspect down the line...

 

[lincolnlocker]

I dunno...that's kinda what I was asking...the Grey Beard hosers have me worried about running a non PTFE lined hose. I haven't had any issues as of yet but worried about that aspect down the line...

That makes sense.

live life full throttle

 

[psduser1]

What's the psi safety factor? Is it rated for petroleum fluids? Those specs listed look good

It is rated for petroleum oils. And yes it is basically hydraulic hose, tested to j1405, from what I can gather.
The media carrying inner is pkr. Don't have a clue what that is.:wtf:
I'm going to call the dealer tomorrow, see what the tech guy can tell me. The original spec for this application was 400*, and they lasted 200k+, so I'm going to try and get as close as I can with the replacements, without those retarded stc fittings.

 

[psduser1]

I dunno...that's kinda what I was asking...the Grey Beard hosers have me worried about running a non PTFE lined hose. I haven't had any issues as of yet but worried about that aspect down the line...

I'm also somewhat concerned about "internal delamination", for lack of a better word, and sending pieces of hose through my injectors, more than a rupture.

 

[mandkole]

The 436 is an option and better than what you have. However, it was spec'd as a power steering hose at a major truck OEM once upon a time and was upgraded due to heat/impulse related hose/coupling interface issues and cover cracking. The updated 437HT is used today but still sees returns for cracking.

IMO, tube delam is primarily a tube extrusion quality issue that can be driven by heat aging. Injectors or hydro-electric valves, it kills them all the same. It was a much bigger issue back in the day with high heat applications and lower quality hose. The high wire pack PTFE hoses supported fears, didnt fail and Aeroquip ran the Navi contract.

Keep in mind, fuel attacks rubber much more aggressively (vs oil), I'd think the tube issues would be a more likely with fuel hoses (with similar injector consequences). Has tube delam occurred on an HPOP application?

The same OEM above approved our MT3000 hose for a rack/pinion steering program, but it was cancelled early with rack reliability issues. We are working on the intergral gear program now.

Im not trying to sell you a hose, but just trying to provide some industry insight and information.

 

[Mr.BigOil]

Just curious, what's wrong with proven OEM hoses?:shrug:

 

[psduser1]

Nothing, joey, I just don't like stc fittings.
Mandkole, I have not heard of delamination issues, but when you talk about internal hose failures, I just picture little pieces of rubber flowing thru my oil system, lol.
I'm no hose expert, so thats probably not an entirely accurate scenario.
However, I have seen embrittlement in some hose covers. That's not uncommon, even in lower temp applications.

 

[gnxtc2]

Nothing, joey, I just don't like stc fittings.
Mandkole, I have not heard of delamination issues, but when you talk about internal hose failures, I just picture little pieces of rubber flowing thru my oil system, lol.
I'm no hose expert, so thats probably not an entirely accurate scenario.
However, I have seen embrittlement in some hose covers. That's not uncommon, even in lower temp applications.

Why don't you swap in the OBS HPOP fittings?

Billy T.
[email protected]