H-11s vs ARP's

[cbrown]

^^^ true story

 

[WoodBoy]

:grouphug:

 

[O2ShootTheJ]

you never posted up pics of the underside of your hood. now that you're the mythbuster we should all know what you got.

page 2, post #20 is where the pictures are

http://powerstrokearmy.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6937&page=2

 

[bigrpowr]

TRIVIA TIME, does anyone even know how a1 got into the diesel market?

a ****** mistakenly called there?

 

[bigrpowr]

That's not what's being talked about in the article though?

then what is a 6.9 stroker?

 

[jdgleason]

Kinda weird how quiet the elite guys are while this is going on lol they're usually all over anything that has to do with their company. It would be nice to get some of their input to possibly clear things up about what happened.

Sorry gentleman, I had a dinner to go to tonight.

They probably should have corrected that after the first time they saw "elite h11 studs for a 6.4" written. I mean i haven't been around the 6.4 game or even the diesel game for long but I sure have seen that written more than one time.

As stated prerviously, Tadd originally tried correcting people.

I will say one last thing in this thread and it can be taken however anyone would like to take it. If you read through all of the pages of this thread, from start to finish, you will see how many people actually thought that Elite studs were truly H-11 head studs. Myself, Shone, Erik, and even Maryland Performance Diesel, which is the shop that brought this whole discussion about, assumed that Elite head studs were H-11. When this thread began, someone that worked at Elite should have corrected the confusion instead of arguing that ARP's are inferior to the studs they sell when in fact they are pretty damn similar. That is my opinion on the subject and I will leave it at that.

We didnt have the full story, and personally, whether they were H-11s or not, the argument was against H-11 which didnt seem logical to me. Thats why I took the stance I did, And I still stand behind that.

The gang has been proven wrong - hard to give other members a hard time when the credibility has been questioned. What can they say to clear it up? What's done is what's done...All they can do is make steps forward and take care of those with an issue over this ordeal.

This is just a mess of a deal for everyone - Mike, Wayne, JD, and Tadd all had very good responses and I'm happy to see that they not only can give out some chit but also take it.


Sucks for those that have been effected but I'm glad the truth is out - great thread.

Thanks man. All we can ask is that everyone realize that we never intentionally pushed a false product, we didnt properly do our research. We will make good on this from here on out however.

Mink I agree with you the only part i even got upset on was the its not worth the time comment... But Jd is a good guy and was caught up in the moment I'm sure he regrets saying that, as for there silence I'm sure there trying to get there story strait with all there facts that ARE true and finding a way to move forward... It's exactly what they should do.... Sorry to any of the elite guys i know after last night you may think i was gunning for you but that was not my intentions at all, sorry for all these grief but the truth about this kinda stuff has to come out... I really feel for the honest guys that modify and repair trucks for a living who has to call there customera and tell them that what they thought they have in there truck is incorrect

This is exactly right. I want to apologize for you, I did get frustrated last night. Youve shown integrity and courtesy to both myself and Elite, and I really appreciate it. I hope we can move forward and mend fences.

Well guys, I'm sorry for what a mess this has turned out to be. I am to blame for a lot of the misinformation. Was it intentional? No. I think I can speak for both myself and JD in saying more steps should've been taken to clear up the misunderstanding of which material was used. As pretty much everyone else who's contributed to, or read this thread up to this point, he's been a little on edge, and probably spoke out of frustration in saying it wasn't worth the time.

The Elite studs have been referred to for so long as H-11, that I haven't even thought about them not being made of a different material in quite a while. A great deal of frustration on behalf of all of our head stud customers, as well as plenty of embarassment on behalf of people associated with Elite could've been avoided if this issue was cleared up sooner.

All of you please keep in mind that Elite is not the only company selling A-1 6.4L studs. Other companies who sell the A-1 studs have advertised them as H-11. Is this an excuse for any lack of clarity on behalf of Elite? No. I'm just saying Elite is not the only party contributing to the A-1 studs being misrepresented.

I will reiterate though, that until today I was not aware of ARP's and Elite studs being made of the same material. I was truly under the impression of Elite's being made of a superior material. I am disappointed to learn this, but thank oneturboforme for bringing this to light. Thanks to the guys at A-1, Tadd has also only recently become aware of the fact that the Elite material is the same as the ARP material, although he is the one who chose the material originally. (as mentioned before, ARP uses a different name) Plans were made to emphasize clarity of actual product material, but unfortunately it was not given enough priority until today.

I do, however, believe the Elite/ A-1 spec. clamping process, and fastener lube to be superior in comparison to ARP's method on torquing beyond yield. JD and Anthony were probably in the same boat on the lack of technically related head stud information. Should they have been more informed? Yes. Should we have more accurately advertised this information? Yes. We (Elite Diesel) are taking steps to ensure mistakes like this never happen again. For those who have been under the impression that the 6.4L Elite studs are made of H-11, and especially for those who have spent the extra money based off this impression, I'm sorry for any part Elite as a company and I personally may have had in the misunderstanding.

Wayne and I were in the same boat. He covered the bases very well and i agree with everything he said. The both of us stand corrected and want nothing more than to turn this into a positive thing that we can build on.

I'm betting alot has to do with buying power. I.would think that arp purchases alot more material from a-1 and others than elite could ever imagine so.elite has to pay a higher price to get it done.

You are 100% correct. I hope no one thinks we are charging more money for the exact same thing, we are not.

 

[bigrpowr]

page 2, post #20 is where the pictures are

http://powerstrokearmy.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6937&page=2

ahh got it. his cold air intake plumbing looks awesome. his intake elbow should be replaced, ill be more than glad to help him out.

 

[derrick36]

then what is a 6.9 stroker?

Did I link one for a 6.9 stroker? It should've been the one for a 6.4 to 7.3
http://www.dieselpowermag.com/tech/ford/1107dp_73l_stroker_kit_for_64l_power_strokes/index.html

edit: I see where the confusion is. The article does talk about the 6.9 as well but the build-up shown is for the 6.4 to 7.3.

 

[bigrpowr]

Did I link one for a 6.9 stroker? It should've been the one for a 6.4 to 7.3
http://www.dieselpowermag.com/tech/ford/1107dp_73l_stroker_kit_for_64l_power_strokes/index.html

yeah it has both stroker motors on there, but if you read the caption its a 16mm stud for a 6.4 stroker, so again its wrong.

 

[oneturboforme]

Jd nohard feelings at all, and Wayne I didn't mean it like that im just saying people are sensitive about this right now thats all man, bigpower... That's a 4" 90 I ordered from summit racing and modified it... That lil dinky. Ic pipe coming off the turbo kept blowing..... Horrible designed from mpd but I heard they have since fixed it, 3" tubing all the way... I used 3" manderal bent ss for mine... I will post updated pics as soon as I can... ill pm you about that elbow I haven't had I problem with mine but ill check yours out, what im looking for at the moment is a solid ccv kit and a oil filter relocation... i dont beleive in bypasses in our truck due to the diesel entering.the oil it needs to be changed anyways....

 

[derrick36]

yeah it has both stroker motors on there, but if you read the caption its a 16mm stud for a 6.4 stroker, so again its wrong.

Are they not 16mm?


"Step 5- starting with the first headbolt, you absolutely want a 16mm 6point impact socket. (We dusted 2 craftsman sockets to find this out. they both broke in the same place, the same way.) The factory says the headbolt torque is 165 ft/lbs, and that very well may be, but something occurs under pressure. maybe the headbolts stretch, I don’t know, but the torque required to break these bolts free is WAY above 165 ft/lbs. I would even suggest keeping an extra 16mm 6 point impact socket on hand for fear of breaking. Always be careful of injector wiring and solenoids. These are very delicate and can be VERY costly if you damage one. Be sure the breaker bar has proper extension to clear the tops and wires to the injectors.
Do not use a ratchet wrench for this. A breaker bar is much more reliable. As well, we used a big cheater bar, because it was ABSOLUTELY necessary, on every bolt. Once you have broken the first head bolt, it will require about (3) 90 degree turns, the force will diminish each turn, but most likely require the cheater bar. You will then feel the headbolt release, and it becomes finger loose. There is one bolt at the back that you cannot get out; the second from the rear on the bottom row. To remove this bolt, remove nuts from motor mount, (4 nuts), then remove the 2 transmission mount nuts, then jack up about an inch, maybe a bit more on the bell housing. These will clearance the motor to get the headbolt out. Leave jack in place until stud is installed and nut is torqued through complete sequence. You can remove the jack after all studs on the passenger side are torqued to specified pressure."

 

[MorganY]

took me 30 minutes to read this. I'll be going with H-11's if my ARP's stretch again. Thanks Elite (JD). This thread has some VERY good information that everyone on PSA should read

 

[jdgleason]

took me 30 minutes to read this. I'll be going with H-11's if my ARP's stretch again. Thanks Elite (JD). This thread has some VERY good information that everyone on PSA should read

Agreed.

 

[oneturboforme]

Wait what... You mean you'll be going elites studs... Nvm you have a 6.0 I about got confused

 

[MorganY]

Wait what... You mean you'll be going elites studs... Nvm you have a 6.0 I about got confused

correct. granted the 6.4 studs are probably a bit larger, I feel the same concept applies with the 6.0 studs.

the part that really interested me, was with ARP's 2nd gen torque specs, it reduces the load on the stud and reduced clamping force if I read it correctly. granted I have the 6.0 studs that called for 245 instead of 210.

I didn't realize how much more the H-11's can take based on the specs Dzchevy showed. amazing

 

[oneturboforme]

Well I can't say this for sure but clamping force may have stayed the same but without testing its hard to tell... The lube is key... There's a clip about how it effects the actual force applied...so all that crap varies... And your right h 11s are 240000 compared to arp and elites which is 220000, or you can step all the way up to 625s which are 260000psi

 

[HOLDERDOWN]

My only question is after reading for the past hour. Is Elite going to drop the price?


Sent from Holderdown Performance mobile command center (iPhone)

 

[Dzchey21]

My only question is after reading for the past hour. Is Elite going to drop the price?


Sent from Holderdown Performance mobile command center (iPhone)

Doubt it like stated above I don't think they have the buying power that arp has to make them any cheaper that's pure speculation tho

 

[forcefed6.4ford]

According to the website, they will be selling all remaining 1722 studs at below cost. What the price is I'm not sure, but it will below the 775 list price.

 

[Tree Trimmer]

and if thats the case, it'll be interesting to see how many ppl keep buying from them. studs anyways.

since the current consensus is there the same, different lube genereates different tq specs, but the stud being the same, just $250 more.

elite has some high end parts, and make great stuff. just be interesting to see what the sales of this one product do over the next 6-12 months, if they cannot make a price drop to be competetive with the market.

on edit: this is aimed at dustins post, not forcefed's