Smokin_Joe
New member
So you spent all that money, tears and time for 800hp on purpose?
High Power turbos vs Tow Powers
- Thread starter jdgleason
- Start date
So you spent all that money, tears and time for 800hp on purpose?
Powerstroked162
On Da Juice
The only thing close is you being a full blown retard.
All the info you need is in this thread. Tow powers aren't gonna do what high powers can. Period.
This thread is pointless. Seems like you and Jeremy are trying to imply something with every comment.
All the info you need is in this thread. Tow powers aren't gonna do what high powers can. Period.
This thread is pointless. Seems like you and Jeremy are trying to imply something with every comment.
Smokin_Joe
New member
Tow power #s are so close to Hp turbos, anyone who is smart with money would hold off and wait for some big power. My tp's have never failed, explain that. I have read about many hp turbos failing at the same power as my truck. Whats up?
White_monster
Active member
Well I went with a diff option of turbos. Erik's truck would make another 15-20% more power if he lowered it and had small wheels like your truck but he likes the lift. You have so much to learn about sizing of turbos and how different options on a vehicle effect the final hp number.
jdgleason
Active member
This goes back to the turbos being in their efficiency range. The tow powers are at the very end of their rapidly fraying rope to make 700.... if they even do. This means that EGTs are climbing pretty high and the chargers are being worked harder than they were intended, thus they are out of their map. Say you take a set of high powers making 700 horse. The turbos are barely breaking a sweat. Temps are low, boost numbers are much lower (even at the same power level) and the engine is not working nearly as hard. Its all due to the extra CFM flowing through the motor. You have a good, reliable set up. Now, if you push high powers to their limits you make 850+ (just a guess no one actually knows this number because it has NEVER been tested on a normal setup) then you are in the same boat. High temps, chargers are reaching their limits. Thats where the max powers would come in.
So, basically tow powers are well inside their map and their intended work load at a much lower power level than the 700 hp we discussed. You cant push the chargers to their limits and expect them to last forever.
jdgleason
Active member
Again, maybe YOUR tow power numbers are what you might consider close, to Eriks numbers but there are variables you arent considering. You like at what? 700 feet? This dyno was done at 6,000 feet. Your tires are a 32" ish? Eriks are 37s...
Smokin_Joe
New member
What is needed to push those large cfm #s through our poor flowing heads?
So if I were to build a truck for competition, how much better are the HP turbos over tp turbos?
So if I were to build a truck for competition, how much better are the HP turbos over tp turbos?
jdgleason
Active member
Obviously boost pressure is needed, but its not a linear equation for making power. I do know that tow powers dont max out the heads. Craigs truck has proven that.
As for comparing high powers to tow powers- I cant do that. There havent been 2 trucks to make a comparison with. Thats been my whole problem with your statements. The only facts that I have are that the high powers move more CFM. There is a correlation between CFM and power.
I can say that Mr. Settlemires truck didnt make any crazy peak power numbers (with high powers), and went 7.67 in the 1/8th. His truck is heavier than yours and is running stock fuel, but 7.67 puts him real close to your truck in a 1/4 mile... I think that speaks for itself. His truck is obviously making ungodly power under the curve.... which is what the advantage larger chargers can give you. I would bet the looking at side by side data logs, temp differences would be pretty crazy as well.
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To a point I am.starting to understand what Joe is saying
If you use Garrett's Turbo.sizing formulas you will find that not only you need mass air flow to make power. But you also need a target manifold pressure to.make that target horse power Which is determined by volumetric efficiency of the engine and cylinder heads
Its also been proven that with stock heads 800 HP.can be achieved with about 55-60 psi of boost.
Now Craig has also proven that you need about 80 psi to make 950 ish. That being said back.pressure Ect is going to also be a determining factor.
So I think to take HP and Max pwr turbos to the next level its going to take more manifold pressure or better flowing heads to.make 1000hp from them.
My target boost is 75 psi on my truck. I upped the injector because I felt fuel was my personal limiting factor.
I think 100% nozzles with high.powers would go well
I also think that 125% would work well with Max powers.
Drivability now becomes the limiting factor until tuning helps us on that
If you use Garrett's Turbo.sizing formulas you will find that not only you need mass air flow to make power. But you also need a target manifold pressure to.make that target horse power Which is determined by volumetric efficiency of the engine and cylinder heads
Its also been proven that with stock heads 800 HP.can be achieved with about 55-60 psi of boost.
Now Craig has also proven that you need about 80 psi to make 950 ish. That being said back.pressure Ect is going to also be a determining factor.
So I think to take HP and Max pwr turbos to the next level its going to take more manifold pressure or better flowing heads to.make 1000hp from them.
My target boost is 75 psi on my truck. I upped the injector because I felt fuel was my personal limiting factor.
I think 100% nozzles with high.powers would go well
I also think that 125% would work well with Max powers.
Drivability now becomes the limiting factor until tuning helps us on that
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White_monster
Active member
I hear what your saying Dustin. I think your right on the injector matches for turbos as well. Tubing is our limitation and thus the reason ppl aren't running massive injectors until someone takes it on themselves and live tunes a truck and collects all the data. I've got a pile of sensors for my setup and as soon as its ready to run the truck will most likely go to Haller's and I'll have to arrange to get a tuner there to live tune it and see what we get. Till then it's just like you said, we're limited by the knowledge we have so far.
lubeowner
New member
Now you kind of see it. If you want to move a more cfm of air through a motor the only way is to either raise boost or increase the engines volumetric efficency.
I also find it interesting that you use 60 psi for 800 hp and 80 psi for 950. Falls right inline to what I posted we were seeing on the dyno, 1 psi boost increase was about 8 hp gain.
White_monster
Active member
Okay that makes perfect sense. Now the tow powers make 700 before they are at there limits and that seems to be about 60psi. The high powers could prob push more boost but with them at 60psi they are moving cooler air. It may not be more cfm's and they only way to know would be with a compressor map but the air is cooler exiting the turbos. Turning boost up is the only way to push more air thru a restriction other than making things flow better.
This thread started due to a statement that was made and then the info to go with it wasn't presented and created a mess.
This thread started due to a statement that was made and then the info to go with it wasn't presented and created a mess.
As long as the air temps don't go up to.high that might be a good rule of thumb but I would never base a build off of that.
PTSUPERD
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I was wondering the same thing honestly. How many failures?
White_monster
Active member
I can think of 1 but it was a result of a piston failure as far as I know.
BFT
Moderator
If its that easy don't you think we'd all be doing it?
Edit:turning up the boost that is.
Edit:turning up the boost that is.
Smokin_Joe
New member
I can think of a few as my little guy is pulling on my leg...
: I know you guys know the details better than I.
Shones had an issue right before DPC.
Heavy Hall's tow power X's.
Eric C ?
Eric should try some larger injectors.
Damn my boy wants to watch Mickey Mouse right now......
: I know you guys know the details better than I.
Shones had an issue right before DPC.
Heavy Hall's tow power X's.
Eric C ?
Eric should try some larger injectors.
Damn my boy wants to watch Mickey Mouse right now......
Shone had a failed wastegate. And tthey were Max powers
Not sure sure what wills deal was with the tow powerx but the issue seams to be fixed as well as some gate issues
Not sure who Eric c is
Fast-6.0
New member
The turbos get blamed a lot but after teardown is done its usually not that. I know of one High-Power set that might have a leaky seal ring. Other than that I know of no other high-power failures. Mike D thought his failed, but it was his motor:fustrate:
