High Power turbos vs Tow Powers

White_monster · Dec 28, 2011

You took the words right out of my mouth Jd. Settlemire's truck might not make more power than say Joe's truck but I'm willing to bet he could hook onto a big trailer and keep his foot in it for a long time without developing high Egt's. Settlemire's setup probabley moves as much air at 25psi as Joe's does at 40psi. Therefore less heat is generated and his system is by far more efficient. Overall power isn't the only goal for most of us since some of us actually work these trucks.

Powerstroked162 · Dec 28, 2011

Smokin_Joe said:
If I was smoking grass I would have called elite to buy those turbos already, spend all that money and time to install them for what? Maybe a 40-50 HP gain and then they might fail on me.

I see bft tuned his truck down because he doesnt want them to blow. Elite is selling an expensive product thats not fugured out yet.

I would love to get rid of my Tp Turbos for something better.

Earlier you said that Tow Powers could make the same power that Eric is putting down with High powers, now it's High Powers make 40-50hp more then the Tow powers. Which one is it? Because 40-50rwhp makes a difference at the track(not that I believe those numbers are accurate, I'm just saying)

I believe that you are correlating failures(reliability) as performance lacking, which isn't the case. Pushing limits is gonna break stuff. Name of the game. If things are not properly setup, i.e., wastegates, etc., you are gonna have some issues. Same thing in the Dmax world with over the counter twin kits. Gates are setup for the kit, fine tuning is on the end user. Tadd can't get it perfect for your driving style, mods, etc., without knowing the truck and the other variables.

As far as turbo's go, Dillehay did 683 with tow powers and Eric did what high 7's?? Seems like they work to me

Dzchey21 · Dec 28, 2011

Dustball8504 said:
Its just as easy to keep reading the thread and not post the stupid popcorn smiley into it. I have nothing to add to this like so many other people just bumping their post count so I'll continue to just read for the info!

Thank you

MINK said:
IIRC Settlemeres #s were thrown around in that thread as 15-25hp higher than the tp Atmo only - granted those #s are all with stock fuel but that is really the best comparison anyone has right now IMO; stock fuel, same elevation, same dyno, same tune etc...

IDK if I even see Joes point anymore - we know the hps make more power period. I was more interested in hearing the "wall" he has no proof or comeback about.

I agree with the compareson.

With added air flow you should be able to bump up the fueling side more to.increase power. So.that being said tthere really is no ideal back to back test.

After riding in eriks truck I think 100% nozzles would be completely streetable because of the 63mm Turbo.

Which is why I'm very Stoked to get mine because I think its going to work very well with my 150s

UPINSMOKE · Dec 28, 2011

Powerstroked162 said:
As far as turbo's go, Dillehay did 683 with tow powers and Eric did what high 7's?? Seems like they work to me

Was the fueling on those trucks equal?

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Powerstroked162 · Dec 28, 2011

Godzilla had 60's, Eric's running 110's. I'd be hard pressed to believe the tow powers would do much more with 110's. Perfect old school example is a 38r on mini-me's and 200% nozzles vs. 38r on 300's. You aren't gonna make another hundred horse with the later, maybe not even 25hp, because you are out of that compressors map at that point and you physically have reached that setups limit. One thing you are gonna have is a truck that isn't streetable because of EGT's, BP, surge, etc., While the setup with less fuel eats you up comparitively

UPINSMOKE · Dec 28, 2011

I wouldn't think so either. I just wasn't sure if they were equal or not. Thanks

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benbou00 · Dec 28, 2011

Didn't Aaron's crew cab with tow powers and 110's make over 700?

Dzchey21 · Dec 28, 2011

benbou00 said:
Didn't Aaron's crew cab with tow powers and 110's make over 700?

710 I think on his dyno

Jeff@Spartan · Dec 28, 2011

730 I thought.

Mike@MPD · Dec 28, 2011

It was 730.9987 I think

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Breaking Habits · Dec 28, 2011

I wish I had a decent number to compare with.. mine did 690/1508 with 110's and a dragonfire on the superflow heartbreaker dyno.. Im curious what mind would be on hallers/dunbar/rudy's dyno.

Jared

Erikclaw · Dec 28, 2011

Joe, get that thing on the dyno and show us a graph. I really doubt it would be as flat and as long as mine that Mike has posted around here. All I know my tp set up is nothing compared to this on with hp's. The only difference is 110's and 6.0 manifolds. HP's pull way stronger that is the sweet and simple truth.

lubeowner · Dec 28, 2011

QUOTE=Smokin_Joe;194642]Because the tow powers can make the same boost all day long. Why wouldn't it make similar power? [/QUOTE]

jdgleason said:
More CFM makes more power. Simple as that. High powers move more CFM. They make more power.

There is one main factor that needs to be considered first before you can make the statement that the HP are moving more cfm of air. That is temperature of the intake air. If that is the same on each setup and they are making the same amount of boost with the same air to fuel ratio they are making relatively the same horsepower. Even though the HP turbo have the capabilities to move more air doesn't mean that they actually are doing it in any given setup. Now if the tow powers are making the same boost but also creating a lot higher intake air temp then at said given boost they have crossed into their inefficiency point and they are making less power.

So to just because the turbos CAN move more cfm doesn't mean that they actually are. So your statement that more cfms makes more power is 100% true. But since the size of the motor is not changing then the boost has to go up or the intake air temp must go down for the cfm increase to happen and get into the motor.

The other factor that you must also consider is rpms at a given boost. More rpms means the motor needs less boost to be moving the same cfms of air.

So if you compare intake air temps on both motors at a given boost and rpm then it will be very easy to tell the tail of how much better the HP turbos are over the Towpowers.

White_monster · Dec 28, 2011

lubeowner said:
QUOTE=Smokin_Joe;194642]Because the tow powers can make the same boost all day long. Why wouldn't it make similar power?

There is one main factor that needs to be considered first before you can make the statement that the HP are moving more cfm of air. That is temperature of the intake air. If that is the same on each setup and they are making the same amount of boost with the same air to fuel ratio they are making relatively the same horsepower. Even though the HP turbo have the capabilities to move more air doesn't mean that they actually are doing it in any given setup. Now if the tow powers are making the same boost but also creating a lot higher intake air temp then at said given boost they have crossed into their inefficiency point and they are making less power.

So to just because the turbos CAN move more cfm doesn't mean that they actually are. So your statement that more cfms makes more power is 100% true. But since the size of the motor is not changing then the boost has to go up or the intake air temp must go down for the cfm increase to happen and get into the motor.

The other factor that you must also consider is rpms at a given boost. More rpms means the motor needs less boost to be moving the same cfms of air.

So if you compare intake air temps on both motors at a given boost and rpm then it will be very easy to tell the tail of how much better the HP turbos are over the Towpowers.[/QUOTE]

So how does a larger wheel move the same volume of air as a smaller wheel? It doesn't. At 20psi the bigger turbo will move a larger volume than the smaller turbo at 20psi. Sure maybe the small turbo at 40psi might move the same volume of air that the big turbo moves at 20psi but the smaller turbo will have created hotter air than the big turbo.

Powerstroked162 · Dec 28, 2011

lubeowner said:
to just because the turbos CAN move more cfm doesn't mean that they actually are. So your statement that more cfms makes more power is 100% true. But since the size of the motor is not changing then the boost has to go up or the intake air temp must go down for the cfm increase to happen and get into the motor.

What happens when the engine CAN take that load of air from these chargers? It's not gonna care about anything other then what's coming down the intake runners. Two trucks side by side, tow powers vs High powers, at WOT, the set that has a greater lb/min number is gonna shine. Which is gonna be the high powers.

You and Joe both need to forget about boost and start looking at compressor maps.

jdgleason · Dec 28, 2011

lubeowner said:
QUOTE=Smokin_Joe;194642]Because the tow powers can make the same boost all day long. Why wouldn't it make similar power?

There is one main factor that needs to be considered first before you can make the statement that the HP are moving more cfm of air. That is temperature of the intake air. If that is the same on each setup and they are making the same amount of boost with the same air to fuel ratio they are making relatively the same horsepower. Even though the HP turbo have the capabilities to move more air doesn't mean that they actually are doing it in any given setup. Now if the tow powers are making the same boost but also creating a lot higher intake air temp then at said given boost they have crossed into their inefficiency point and they are making less power.

So to just because the turbos CAN move more cfm doesn't mean that they actually are. So your statement that more cfms makes more power is 100% true. But since the size of the motor is not changing then the boost has to go up or the intake air temp must go down for the cfm increase to happen and get into the motor.

The other factor that you must also consider is rpms at a given boost. More rpms means the motor needs less boost to be moving the same cfms of air.

So if you compare intake air temps on both motors at a given boost and rpm then it will be very easy to tell the tail of how much better the HP turbos are over the Towpowers.[/QUOTE]
Although you are totally off base and your input is completely irrelevant to this thread, you're right. A Subaru wrx would most likely make less power with a gt55 than it would with a stock turbo simply due to the fact it couldn't spool it. The bottom line remains: high powers are capable of moving much more air and making much more power.

Super08Duty · Dec 28, 2011

A good easy comparison would be two trucks with the same setups denoting on the same day and same dyno. Only difference being one truck with TPs and one with HPs. Personally i think the increased CFMs with the HPs over the TPs proves which setup is the most powerful. And just a thought but, wouldn't more CFMs mean colder intake temps?