Do I have to buy a tuner to do that ? Or will it run just blocked off.
How many hours of wrenching to get the EGR cooler off ?
My tow pig/DD build thread. F350/Cummins 6.7/twins/6R140
- Thread starter me2
- Start date
Do I have to buy a tuner to do that ? Or will it run just blocked off.
How many hours of wrenching to get the EGR cooler off ?
uga33
New member
Bout two hours to get them off. Heck block off kits plates are cheap to buy. Truck will run with them gone, just have a CEL.
Thanks for sharing information about that option. As you can probably tell, I know very little about the 6.4. I'll give it some thought.
It started smoking white at a stoplight this morning. It made a big cloud. It didn't smell like fuel. It continued for a few miles in stop and go traffic until I got home. Could it be something other than the EGR cooler ? Head gaskets ?
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A few late night thoughts.
1) If it only takes a couple hours to install them, I should make up some EGR block off plates and install them on my 6.4
That is the quickest way for me to have a working vehicle and then I can save the Father's Day camping trip and then I can collect my CAN Bus info with a working vehicle. And it gives my engine buyer a bit more time to get ready.
Thanks for the tip, uga33. I owe you one.
I have a plasma cutter, so I thought I'd make some plates like these.
How thick should I make them ? From sheet stainless ? Gasket on both sides ?
The install instructions here don't look too bad.
http://www.competitiondiesel.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66779
2) I am going to take a closer look at modifying the marine valve cover to fit my engine.
I'm thinking I could mill a small piece of the bottom section of the wavy side out and TIG in a piece of angle aluminum to replace it. I could then mill the edge of the angle aluminum to match the bottom of the rest of the cover. That would give me a straight edge on the injector side of the cover.
It would probably only take a few hours to do.
3) ProjectV20, another clearance question !
How much room do you have under the cowl ? Enough to adjust the valves ?
Does your adapter plate have a cut out for the tool to turn over the engine via the flywheel ?
1) If it only takes a couple hours to install them, I should make up some EGR block off plates and install them on my 6.4
That is the quickest way for me to have a working vehicle and then I can save the Father's Day camping trip and then I can collect my CAN Bus info with a working vehicle. And it gives my engine buyer a bit more time to get ready.
Thanks for the tip, uga33. I owe you one.
I have a plasma cutter, so I thought I'd make some plates like these.
How thick should I make them ? From sheet stainless ? Gasket on both sides ?
The install instructions here don't look too bad.
http://www.competitiondiesel.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66779
2) I am going to take a closer look at modifying the marine valve cover to fit my engine.
I'm thinking I could mill a small piece of the bottom section of the wavy side out and TIG in a piece of angle aluminum to replace it. I could then mill the edge of the angle aluminum to match the bottom of the rest of the cover. That would give me a straight edge on the injector side of the cover.
It would probably only take a few hours to do.
3) ProjectV20, another clearance question !
How much room do you have under the cowl ? Enough to adjust the valves ?
Does your adapter plate have a cut out for the tool to turn over the engine via the flywheel ?
Project20v
New member
Maybe this could address your height issue? It does not hurt that it looks badass too. Maybe I'll get one for my truck, WTH what's another $1k? when your throwing around 15K. (kidding)
http://i638.photobucket.com/albums/uu110/lilredtonka350/2011-12-10094233-1.jpg
3) ProjectV20, another clearance question !
How much room do you have under the cowl ? Enough to adjust the valves ?
There seems to be room under the cowl to adj the valves. I installed the engine with the cover off to give me a bit of extra room to avoid scratching my pretty oil pan. Once in the cover went on pretty easily.
http://i638.photobucket.com/albums/uu110/lilredtonka350/2011-12-10094233-1.jpg
3) ProjectV20, another clearance question !
How much room do you have under the cowl ? Enough to adjust the valves ?
There seems to be room under the cowl to adj the valves. I installed the engine with the cover off to give me a bit of extra room to avoid scratching my pretty oil pan. Once in the cover went on pretty easily.
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uga33
New member
Sounds like coolers. How is the level in the coolant bottle? If you still have the DPF on it, it could be just going through a regen. Mine would smoke like crazy in regen till I deleted it. As for running the coolers deleted with stock tuning, I recommend driving It around and making sure it won't go into limp mode before you hook up for Fathers day. I would hate for that to happen to you.
Great project. Wish I had time / space to try something like this.
What are you using to read/scan the CAN bus data, and do you have any links on CAN bus data. I have an 07 250 that I'm considering doing a swap on as my 6.uh-oh is beginning to have signs of dying.
What are you using to read/scan the CAN bus data, and do you have any links on CAN bus data. I have an 07 250 that I'm considering doing a swap on as my 6.uh-oh is beginning to have signs of dying.
I'm using a prototype of the controllers I'm going to build. That way I am using and testing the actual hardware that I will be using to run the truck. I process the data with my own software.
I have not found any information on this on the Internet. I am in contact with another person working with the CAN Bus for a different project, but the data he is looking at is very different from what I am needing.
I'm not sure how much CAN stuff your 07 does. I know the 7.3 based trucks are all J1850 PWM(?) OBDII.
The shop manual for your 07 will tell you what it does CAN wise. The Helms shop manuals are friggin expensive, but just about essential for doing this sort of work. I would consult one first before I spent a bunch of time and money on tools.
Please post back what you find as I seem to be fielding quite a few questions about CAN stuff on pre 08 trucks.
From another forum.
I'm not wanting to start a discussion or debate about the topic, I'm just relaying what other people think about this project. No further comment needed.
I'm undetered. I'm going to build it and what we get is what we get. Its a learning project.
I'm not wanting to start a discussion or debate about the topic, I'm just relaying what other people think about this project. No further comment needed.
I'm undetered. I'm going to build it and what we get is what we get. Its a learning project.
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I found a link for a $30 dollar usb scan tool supposedly capable of reading CAN bus data and is compatible with many different scan programs. Not sure if it will read diesels, I've been told by a local mechanic friend that there is a major difference.
http://www.diygadget.com/other-cool-gadgets/elm327-usb-obdii-obd2-eobd-can-bus-code-scanner.html
http://www.diygadget.com/other-cool-gadgets/elm327-usb-obdii-obd2-eobd-can-bus-code-scanner.html
uga33
New member
You may have posted that you were in a previous post, but do you plan to run a girdle for the bottom end on the 6.7?
bad12jr
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Run far far away from the obd adapter. If it is anything like the Bluetooth version and I'm fairly confident it is, its a slow pos. I have the the Bluetooth one I use for torque on my phone. Pulls codes but any kind of data rate intensive app it fails miserably. Fault after fault. I had it hooked up for 5 min and had 1800 or so error faults while trying to watch pids.
There are a couple for around 100 dollars that I have read will read ford and can bus data very well as the protocol ford uses is weird compared to other company's. Wiki kiwi adapter is one very popular. The person who wrote the torque software on android uses that one quite often.
Sent from my x2 somewhere
There are a couple for around 100 dollars that I have read will read ford and can bus data very well as the protocol ford uses is weird compared to other company's. Wiki kiwi adapter is one very popular. The person who wrote the torque software on android uses that one quite often.
Sent from my x2 somewhere
I wasn't going to.
I posted build questions in my own threads on both CF and CompD and people told me I didn't even need to do rods until 800 HP. People actually discouraged me from doing even the rods.
I've watched other build threads and asked questions in them and so far people think I don't even need to do the rods.
Here is the CF Thread.
http://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/6...on/493255-tow-pig-engine-build-checklist.html
Here is the CompD Thread.
http://www.competitiondiesel.com/forums/showthread.php?t=133630
The replies to my question on the turbo drain thread were the first time that people have questioned the strength of the 6.7 bottom end.
I spent a lot of time investigating rods, simply because I didn't want to take a chance on them.
The only broken crank I know of was Big Swole's. He dyno'd 850HP at the rear wheels and figured he was making 900HP on the run it let go. I am nowhere near those power levels. 600 HP at the engine = 480 HP at the wheels.
850 HP at the rear wheels = at least 1100 HP (!) at the crank. At 2500 RPM, that is 2300 ftlbs at the flywheel.
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A couple quick comments.
Reading the CAN Bus is pretty easy these days. The hardware to do it is commonplace.
Doing something with the data you get off the CAN Bus is another story altogether.
OEMs use proprietary PIDs and you have to figure them out in order to get meaningful data. That is where ALL the work lies.
OBDII and CAN Bus are 2 entirely different beasts.
OBDII is a diagnostic communications system. The hardware layer is defined in J1850 and has a baud rate of 10.4 or 41.6 Kbps.
Can Bus is (real time) controller communications system. The hardware layer is designed to run at 250Kbps or 1Mbps.
It is possible to run gauge systems with OBDII signals. I think it would be pretty difficult to do engine and transmission control with OBDII signals. But I'm a newbie at all this and learning as I go, so I might be wrong.
The battery boxes arrived. They are from an E250/E350 van. I paid $20 each for them plus $20 shipping.
I hope to mount the batteries in these boxes on the outside of the passenger side frame rail, under the cab.
The flexplate arrived. It took forever because I bought it at the least expensive dealer and there were delays.
The flex plate seems to have counterweights on it like a crankshaft. There is no way the plate itself is that far out of balance and the flexplate is timed with the crank. Note the hole for a timing pin near the end of the pen.
There are tons of issues around the flexplate, starter and transmission adapter left to resolved. Not the least of which is the fact that the diameter of the Ford flexplate appears to be too small to use with the Cummins block because the starter hits the block before the starter teeth engage the flexplate.
This is a top priority. More on it later.
I hope to mount the batteries in these boxes on the outside of the passenger side frame rail, under the cab.
The flexplate arrived. It took forever because I bought it at the least expensive dealer and there were delays.
The flex plate seems to have counterweights on it like a crankshaft. There is no way the plate itself is that far out of balance and the flexplate is timed with the crank. Note the hole for a timing pin near the end of the pen.
There are tons of issues around the flexplate, starter and transmission adapter left to resolved. Not the least of which is the fact that the diameter of the Ford flexplate appears to be too small to use with the Cummins block because the starter hits the block before the starter teeth engage the flexplate.
This is a top priority. More on it later.
I took my engine mock up down to a dealer and plopped it into a 6.4 truck, minus the engine.
Generally, the engine appears to fit quite well.
There appears to be a height clearance issue in the front.
The mock engine models the 6.7 with the full valve cover. It appears that it might be possible to make the engine fit with the stock cover, but that it would fit better with a modified valve cover.
It also appears that it might be necessary to move the stock steering damper and possibly make a small change to the cross member.
The mock engine is a bit crude in the area of the front oil pan, in that it resembles the deepest part of the pan at both edges, whereas the pan on the real engine is only that deep in the center and the edges are shallower.
As the mock engine sits now, one could gain about an inch of clearance by contouring the driver's side of the crossmember to the shape of the pan. However, the crossmember shape may be just fine with the real engine.
Something will probably have to be done with the placement of the steering damper mount.
The length looks fine, but just. The mock engine contacts the 5R110 transmission face way before it contacts the firewall. Should radiator clearance in the front be an issue, the transmission my have to be moved rearward by a inch or more.
There is lots of room on the sides, especially in the heater box area. More so than with my '99. The amount of room is very impressive in this regard.
The stock engine mounts are very far rearward on the truck. They roughly align with the rear engine mount holes in the 6.7. It may be possible to use the stock Ford engine mounts.
It also appears that it is possible to insert the 6.7 into the truck without lifting the cab. But only just so. To do do, one drops the front of the engine down to get the oil pan sump behind the cross member and then lifts it up.
I think it is impossible to insert the engine with the transmission attached.
Generally, the engine appears to fit quite well.
There appears to be a height clearance issue in the front.
The mock engine models the 6.7 with the full valve cover. It appears that it might be possible to make the engine fit with the stock cover, but that it would fit better with a modified valve cover.
It also appears that it might be necessary to move the stock steering damper and possibly make a small change to the cross member.
The mock engine is a bit crude in the area of the front oil pan, in that it resembles the deepest part of the pan at both edges, whereas the pan on the real engine is only that deep in the center and the edges are shallower.
As the mock engine sits now, one could gain about an inch of clearance by contouring the driver's side of the crossmember to the shape of the pan. However, the crossmember shape may be just fine with the real engine.
Something will probably have to be done with the placement of the steering damper mount.
The length looks fine, but just. The mock engine contacts the 5R110 transmission face way before it contacts the firewall. Should radiator clearance in the front be an issue, the transmission my have to be moved rearward by a inch or more.
There is lots of room on the sides, especially in the heater box area. More so than with my '99. The amount of room is very impressive in this regard.
The stock engine mounts are very far rearward on the truck. They roughly align with the rear engine mount holes in the 6.7. It may be possible to use the stock Ford engine mounts.
It also appears that it is possible to insert the 6.7 into the truck without lifting the cab. But only just so. To do do, one drops the front of the engine down to get the oil pan sump behind the cross member and then lifts it up.
I think it is impossible to insert the engine with the transmission attached.
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The height issue caught me totally off guard and destroyed the layout plans I had for my twin turbocharger setup.
My original twin turbocharger layout was going to have the HE351VE in the stock location and the S475 mounted up front so the scroll was above the exhaust manifold. This is how ATS sets up their Aurora twins for Dodge trucks.
The problem with that setup is that the upper part of the scrolls protrude above the valve cover of the engine and in a Ford truck, there isn't enough clearance for that.
My solution to this situation is to recognize that while the Ford engine compartment is height limited, it has lots of room to the passenger side of the engine.
My new twins setup will have the HE351VE mounted up and to the front of the engine and the S475 mounted approximately where the stock turbocharger is mounted.
I'll use either the stock 6.7 manifold or a 2nd gen manifold to achieve the HE351 placement. I may build a remote oil filter setup so that there is more room for the front turbo.
Being that I am making the hotpipe for it, I can place the S475 pretty much where I want to. The biggest obstacle to its placement is the location of the passenger side engine mount.
My original twin turbocharger layout was going to have the HE351VE in the stock location and the S475 mounted up front so the scroll was above the exhaust manifold. This is how ATS sets up their Aurora twins for Dodge trucks.
The problem with that setup is that the upper part of the scrolls protrude above the valve cover of the engine and in a Ford truck, there isn't enough clearance for that.
My solution to this situation is to recognize that while the Ford engine compartment is height limited, it has lots of room to the passenger side of the engine.
My new twins setup will have the HE351VE mounted up and to the front of the engine and the S475 mounted approximately where the stock turbocharger is mounted.
I'll use either the stock 6.7 manifold or a 2nd gen manifold to achieve the HE351 placement. I may build a remote oil filter setup so that there is more room for the front turbo.
Being that I am making the hotpipe for it, I can place the S475 pretty much where I want to. The biggest obstacle to its placement is the location of the passenger side engine mount.
2 interesting performance threads.
5.9CR makes 556hp and 1024tq (both rear wheel) with EFI Live and stock CP3 and injectors.
The thing that interests me is the stock CP3 and injectors, because I am hoping not to mod them.
http://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/3...-discussion/501983-efi-live-dyno-numbers.html
Discussion of a bulletproof 800 HP 6.7.
A couple things interest me in that thread.
The cost number thrown around for a good transmission build for one.
And Torquemada made "450hp and 950lbft tq-sucked the fuel rail dry." He was not using EFI Live tuning and for some reason EFI Live tuned engines seem to get more out of the CP3.
http://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/6...-bulletproof-800-hp-indestructible-6-7-a.html
I'm posting these because I found them interesting, not necessarily for discussion. I'm stuck at a desk at the moment, waiting for a call, waiting to make a call. I'll be back in my garage in a hour or so. I'm focused on getting my swap done, not maximizing its power before its done.
5.9CR makes 556hp and 1024tq (both rear wheel) with EFI Live and stock CP3 and injectors.
The thing that interests me is the stock CP3 and injectors, because I am hoping not to mod them.
http://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/3...-discussion/501983-efi-live-dyno-numbers.html
Discussion of a bulletproof 800 HP 6.7.
A couple things interest me in that thread.
The cost number thrown around for a good transmission build for one.
And Torquemada made "450hp and 950lbft tq-sucked the fuel rail dry." He was not using EFI Live tuning and for some reason EFI Live tuned engines seem to get more out of the CP3.
http://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/6...-bulletproof-800-hp-indestructible-6-7-a.html
I'm posting these because I found them interesting, not necessarily for discussion. I'm stuck at a desk at the moment, waiting for a call, waiting to make a call. I'll be back in my garage in a hour or so. I'm focused on getting my swap done, not maximizing its power before its done.
I think the white smoke issue on my 6.4 is the fault of an early 6.4 intercooler design that collects moisture.
According to a couple posts on various sites, If you are driving an early 08 truck like mine with a light load for a while and then give it significant throttle, the hot charge air picks up the moisture that has collected in the intercooler and feeds it to the engine, which creates white smoke (steam) that doesn't smell like fuel.
I think that is what happend to my truck on Friday. I checked the coolant level and it doesn't seem to be dropping.
Here is a TSB on it.
www.thedieselgarage.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=16291&d=1232503959
I have contacted my dealer about this issue and asked if it would be covered under the Emissions Warranty. I'm waiting for a reply.
I was driving my truck this morning and it seems to work OK.
I'm working on the 6.7 turbo piping right now. I'll have pictures tonight.
According to a couple posts on various sites, If you are driving an early 08 truck like mine with a light load for a while and then give it significant throttle, the hot charge air picks up the moisture that has collected in the intercooler and feeds it to the engine, which creates white smoke (steam) that doesn't smell like fuel.
I think that is what happend to my truck on Friday. I checked the coolant level and it doesn't seem to be dropping.
Here is a TSB on it.
www.thedieselgarage.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=16291&d=1232503959
I have contacted my dealer about this issue and asked if it would be covered under the Emissions Warranty. I'm waiting for a reply.
I was driving my truck this morning and it seems to work OK.
I'm working on the 6.7 turbo piping right now. I'll have pictures tonight.
