Tuning 101 - Thread Merged with Injector Posts

TyCorr

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Since the mcc guys have a subforum, cant we? Or should we just start a thread and start posting screenshots from minotaur with pw, icp, and mfd tables? **** it, lets get this shti rolling. Obviously this idea shouldnt be stepping on any vendor toes as none of them agree with the principal anyway.

Look at how smooth 907daves 450/400s idle and free rev. And we're bickering over 200% nozzles? What comparable size is a 6.4 stock nozzle? What about a 6.7? Or duramax?
 

dsberman94

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If gh cant tune that how you want it, send those injectors back and have them inspected.


They are tunes very well. I need to have him firm up the shifts on the hot street and all out, but other than that the tuning is very good. Power comes on late to save the rods in the higher tunes but there's enough there down low to get it going. Love the tuning, just asking for the builders perspective.
 

psduser1

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Unfortunately a lot still do. I have seen it first hand. All you need is a scanner to watch it.

Here's your issue, can anyone buy a set of 300/200's and run in there stock truck and tow a house? Sure they can. But your tuner will hate you and you just spent nearly twice as much on a set of injectors that do the same exact thing you want to do. Any tuner will tell you, as several have told me it's easier to tune an injector that needs say 3 ms to completely empty verses one that needs 2ms. The shorter the people the more work is going to be required to get the best outcome. Most control fuel with pw. Once your injection window is so little it will be harder to control. Fortunately for years many injectors took for ever to fully empty. That made it easy to tune. I couldn't tell you how many sets of 250/100's we have sent to us to go through because people just are not happy with the outcome. Many many sets we run on the bench and have to run at 5ms to get all to empty 250cc.

No lets throw another wrench into this equation. Two injector companies make the same size injector but have completely different flow rates at various Rpms. How do you think that's going to play into your tuners efforts? We designed our own version of injectors that some tuners saw first hand they had to make several adjustments too and couldn't figure out why. The flow bench gave them the answers they needed. In the past they were tuning for say a 250cc injector that they thought was actually giving them 250cc. Wrong, once they started getting 250cc they had to go back and adjust for it.

That is just another thing that makes tuning not so easy. Fortunately you have companies that have worked with tuners for years to be able to package together options to do just what you want to do.

So the consumer has options. Buy a set of injectors that WILL do what you want and get a tune that has been proven to work and do what you want 1,000 times or buy twice the injector (size and $$$) you need and spend possibly months with tuning revisions to get where you want to be because it is a combo of parts a tuner isn't familiar with, Your choice.
That perfectly describes a tuner that has found a nice steady income flow, and is unwilling to spend time to actually improve the product he so proudly calls "the best".
Matt has basic, standard tunes that I run on three trucks, two with 100%s, and one stock nozzle.
Perfect. First try.
In fact, the bigger nozzles are better than the stock ones. :shrug:
Pretty sure he could make any well built 200% nozzles injector run just as well, if the injector actually does what it advertises. Of course live tuning would be best, and should only take a couple hours of tweaking to make everything perfect since every truck is different.
 

PABowhunter

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Since the mcc guys have a subforum, cant we? Or should we just start a thread and start posting screenshots from minotaur with pw, icp, and mfd tables? **** it, lets get this shti rolling. Obviously this idea shouldnt be stepping on any vendor toes as none of them agree with the principal anyway.

Look at how smooth 907daves 450/400s idle and free rev. And we're bickering over 200% nozzles? What comparable size is a 6.4 stock nozzle? What about a 6.7? Or duramax?

This would be super informative.

Most of us on here have highly modified trucks with all the supporting mods. Forget about the guy with a stock truck looking for new injectors.
 
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Proof why no one needs 100% nozzles on 160cc injectors

But your truck is not taking full advantage of a 200% injector. You are detuning the injector. The major player here is live tuning.

Billy T.
[email protected]


The injectors isn't 200%, the nozzle is.

The nozzle is rust a restriction to flow. The factory nozzle is efficient at 180rwhp. Where it was designed to be.

When you want 350-400, roughly 100% more hp than factory, you would want a nozzle rated to keep it in the same efficiency range..... If 100% nozzle weren't such a turd they would be a good nozzles for that range. So that leaves it to a small nozzle or a bigger one. I personally side with bigger. But that's my experience.

the flip side question has to be 'why would I want to run a long pulsewidth that a small nozzle will require to get fuel in the motor?'


Unless you were oblivious to what was going on in your engine and tune, there is no reason.


Tim does have a valid point that by just throwing a big nozzle on any injector doesn't mean it will function/empty properly. There is a few tricks to getting them to work together.


But overall, if your tuner is too lazy/busy or doesn't care then it's time for a new tuner. It's not an excuse to buy a lesser injector just to mask improper tunes or an incapable tuner.

There is a time and place for stock injectors... There are people who don't know what they are doing and really don't have any place doing it. They don't care or have the mental capacity to understand the difference. Those people will not have the proper setup or tuning. They are better off with nothing vs a 200% nozzle. But that shouldn't be a reason to shy everyone away from 200%. Just separates they boys from the men.


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Jomax

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The injectors isn't 200%, the nozzle is.

The nozzle is rust a restriction to flow. The factory nozzle is efficient at 180rwhp. Where it was designed to be.

When you want 350-400, roughly 100% more hp than factory, you would want a nozzle rated to keep it in the same efficiency range..... If 100% nozzle weren't such a turd they would be a good nozzles for that range. So that leaves it to a small nozzle or a bigger one. I personally side with bigger. But that's my experience.




Unless you were oblivious to what was going on in your engine and tune, there is no reason.


Tim does have a valid point that by just throwing a big nozzle on any injector doesn't mean it will function/empty properly. There is a few tricks to getting them to work together.


But overall, if your tuner is too lazy/busy or doesn't care then it's time for a new tuner. It's not an excuse to buy a lesser injector just to mask improper tunes or an incapable tuner.

There is a time and place for stock injectors... There are people who don't know what they are doing and really don't have any place doing it. They don't care or have the mental capacity to understand the difference. Those people will not have the proper setup or tuning. They are better off with nothing vs a 200% nozzle. But that shouldn't be a reason to shy everyone away from 200%. Just separates they boys from the men.


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Do you tune 7.3s??? You've always seem to know your stuff!


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psduser1

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The injectors isn't 200%, the nozzle is.

The nozzle is rust a restriction to flow. The factory nozzle is efficient at 180rwhp. Where it was designed to be.

When you want 350-400, roughly 100% more hp than factory, you would want a nozzle rated to keep it in the same efficiency range..... If 100% nozzle weren't such a turd they would be a good nozzles for that range. So that leaves it to a small nozzle or a bigger one. I personally side with bigger. But that's my experience.




Unless you were oblivious to what was going on in your engine and tune, there is no reason.


Tim does have a valid point that by just throwing a big nozzle on any injector doesn't mean it will function/empty properly. There is a few tricks to getting them to work together.


But overall, if your tuner is too lazy/busy or doesn't care then it's time for a new tuner. It's not an excuse to buy a lesser injector just to mask improper tunes or an incapable tuner.

There is a time and place for stock injectors... There are people who don't know what they are doing and really don't have any place doing it. They don't care or have the mental capacity to understand the difference. Those people will not have the proper setup or tuning. They are better off with nothing vs a 200% nozzle. But that shouldn't be a reason to shy everyone away from 200%. Just separates they boys from the men.


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Well said.
 

lincolnlocker

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Biggest fail, I always though jcain and ja-Cain were the same person... Never caught the a.

I always wondered why sometimes he'd come out as a super nice guy and sometimes not... Lol


And ways though why he got a 7.3 and was selling his built 6.7 LOL




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dam left coasters
Do you tune 7.3s??? You've always seem to know your stuff!


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he's just smart and he gave up on the 7.3 a few years ago.

live life full throttle

god bless america and the farmer who feeds your fat ass
 
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Do you tune 7.3s??? You've always seem to know your stuff!


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No I gave up ant left it to the professionals. When I quit when a 7.3 wasn't supposed to run with 300cc injectors and a 38r.... But I did anyway. If 200% were out longer I wish I would have set it up that way. The 100%'s were junk. Unfortunately we don't see much 7.3 business other than stock trucks needing glow plugs anymore.. Well, I may have done a couple billet rod 7.3's this year... But it's not the norm.

Well said.


Thank you

dam left coasters

he's just smart and he gave up on the 7.3 a few years ago.

live life full throttle

god bless america and the farmer who feeds your fat ass


If I didn't have 10 projects going on I would dabble in it again. Unfortunately I gotta pay the bills first and that takes all my time.



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lincolnlocker

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ja_cain

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ja_cain

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Since the mcc guys have a subforum, cant we? Or should we just start a thread and start posting screenshots from minotaur with pw, icp, and mfd tables? **** it, lets get this shti rolling. Obviously this idea shouldnt be stepping on any vendor toes as none of them agree with the principal anyway.

Look at how smooth 907daves 450/400s idle and free rev. And we're bickering over 200% nozzles? What comparable size is a 6.4 stock nozzle? What about a 6.7? Or duramax?
I think this is a great idea!

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was that gated other then the stock gate?

they changed the dam turbo rules on me. im not sure if i can even run my 38r any longer... if i understand it correctly, i have to go to a 2.5 t4...

live life full throttle

god bless america and the farmer who feeds your fat ass


Stock gate, the first video was actually the last hook it made. Had considerably less fuel that the video below it which was much earlier. It ran way to hot with 100% and no matter what the fuel we did it was still smokey. But it did pull hard to 4000rpm.

Well that's good and bad. You can make more power with the 2.5 but you have to spend more money...

Dude, those were some awesome pulls! Can you image the ruduction in smoke output if you had jumped to a 200% nozzle, keeping the same amount of fuel delivery and using good tuning? That would have been the perfect testimony.

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Yeah, my plan was to put 200% on it over that winter. But it blew up the factory forged rod engine towing a trailer to Oklahoma. Then I lost interest put it to stock and sold it. I ran a lot of methanol through it, and the tunes were a little on the aggressive side. Plus the 100%'s sucked balls. Generally I drove it like I wanted it to blow up. It eventually did lol.

That was the last 7.3 I owned. We still have the 99 dad bought new but it's stock. That and the 04 6.0 we have is all that is left of the oil fired trucks.


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ja_cain

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From SC. Raised in Vegas. Live in KC.

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Most of my kin (on the cain side) are from WVa. Lol! One of my uncles did just move to SC recently to be closer to his son though.

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ja_cain

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Biggest fail, I always though jcain and ja-Cain were the same person... Never caught the a.

I always wondered why sometimes he'd come out as a super nice guy and sometimes not... Lol


And ways though why he got a 7.3 and was selling his built 6.7 LOL




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Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde. Lol!

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PsRumors

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I am in the market for injectors come spring. I had decided to go with a 180/100 until this thread. In talking to FF the reason given to go to 100% nozzles is basically the same reason given here to go to 200%, one can inject in a narrower window.

When I was playing with LSx motors I learned to tune so I got the results I wanted. I don't have the time to invest again so which tuners would be the ones to talk to?
 

Dmstrucks02

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I am in the market for injectors come spring. I had decided to go with a 180/100 until this thread. In talking to FF the reason given to go to 100% nozzles is basically the same reason given here to go to 200%, one can inject in a narrower window.

When I was playing with LSx motors I learned to tune so I got the results I wanted. I don't have the time to invest again so which tuners would be the ones to talk to?
I'm pretty happy with my GH tunes, only running 238/80s but it runs awesome

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