Unlimited vs Swamps

Tom S · May 22, 2011

Choupique108 said:
Ive been to Swamps shop first hand and was there for two weeks. Seeing what i saw them do to make sure the injector parts was back within factory specs by MACHINING the parts and NOT SHIMMING them, makes the extra money you spend with them worth it.

When I buy my injectors, they WILL come from SWAMPS, hands down without a doubt.

I have been to the shop and I did like that they had a nice area to work on injectors. Who was working on the inejctors when you were there? I cannot quite remember what all they had for equipment for machining parts from that visit.

STROKIN N STYLE · May 22, 2011

Shawn built the injectors for years, but he has recently trained another guy to do it, and he is just as good. They measure each part of the injector to make sure they all match, and put them through a number of tests on the flow bench to assure that they flow the same. If the injectors don't match, they take them back into the injector room and rebuild the ones that don't match up, put them back on the flow bench and test them again. You definatly get what you pay for when buying from Swamps! And.......there is another new guy in the injector room.....

Cowboy.. I'd like to hear your comment...

jwlandry · May 22, 2011

Tom S said:
I have been to the shop and I did like that they had a nice area to work on injectors. Who was working on the inejctors when you were there? I cannot quite remember what all they had for equipment for machining parts from that visit.

Shawn was the main guy. He had helpers but he did the final build up.

Dieselfever · May 22, 2011

Powerstroked162 said:
This thread is worthless

:doh: :whs: Mostly because there will be no unbiased opinion. Unless you can find some one who has ran both and compared them yada yada, blah blah.
Being as brand loyal and biased as this particular demographic is, I'd say your changes of finding that are slim to none. Same with finding a valid opinion.

-Michael

Oh yeah, does anyone else smell a Troll??

Powerstroked162 · May 22, 2011

Dieselfever said:
:doh: :whs: Mostly because there will be no unbiased opinion. Unless you can find some one who has ran both and compared them yada yada, blah blah.
Being as brand loyal and biased as this particular demographic is, I'd say your changes of finding that are slim to none. Same with finding a valid opinion.

-Michael

Oh yeah, does anyone else smell a Troll??

I was thinking the same thing....

Plus, like Scotty said, I wanna hear what Powerstroke Cowboy has to say on the subject.... We are all patiently awaiting you to enlighten us

TARM · May 23, 2011

I am runing Nate's 465/200 with fast.mods and whatever other tweaking he does. I am very happy with them and the flow perf on the data sheet that accompanied them. When I go up to 400% and any new tweaks that may have come along in that time that is who I plan to have do the work.

If I had gone to his shop and seen his I am sure I would have been impressed but that would not tell me anything about he compares to any other builder unless I went to their shop as well. Same thing goes for how well they run. No way I or ANYONE can tell you a particular builders injectors are best or better than anothers unless they have done or seen first hand direct comparison of them. All it would amount to is cheerleading and would just degrade into. "Which tuner is best" thread.

I went with Nate because Matt does all my tuning and I have come to trust and respect him and his opinion. All the checking I did also confirmed this. Further I know the performance of some of the trucks runing his injectors. Jason Hoffman who I am very impressed with his expereince and developement work has chosen to work with Nate in developing his injectors only adds to my positive opinion that much more.

Even with all that I can not say he is best better etc al I can say is I am happy with the products he has built for me.

vanderchevy18 · May 23, 2011

Tarm is right. Its just like tuners. You know why people have a preference? Because that's what THEY run. Wanna know who I like best? Casserly. Why? That's who I got mine from. If I didn't think so I would not have got them from him. Same goes for folks with swamps and unlimited. I bet if you bought the same size injector from all three and put them in the same truck and all else being equal.... guess what. I bet you wont be able to tell who's is who's.

Sorry jim. I forgot to throw rosewood in there. He counts too. I have a set of his stock rebuilts in my e99.

Bruno2 · May 23, 2011

I dont want knock anybody in this thread. I havent done any business with Unlimited. I have never heard anyone complain or say negative things about them either. I bought a fuel system from swamps and it was good product. They even asked my opinion of the products , the value and the installation according to instructions as far as if they were helpful or not. I think Swamps is concerned about providing a quality product to their customers. I know I have called Jonathan about several problems and quirks I was having with my truck and he was always willing to help me even if it didnt have anything to do with making a sale or their products.

I would run their injectors in a heartbeat if I was in the market for some. Here again I dont have any experience with the other suppliers in this thread. I am not trying to knock or degrade anyone. I think my experiences with Swamps is worth posting about though.

Customer service is what makes the difference to me with vendors. One of the issues I look at mostly with CS is everyone has to be treated the same rather they are spending $50.00 or $5,000.00.

Fl Stroker · May 23, 2011

I work in a customer service industry and hands down Swamps gets my vote. Great group of guys that before and after the sale they are commited to making sure you are satisfied as a customer. You get this service from the owners as well as from to the people they employee.

So Go get SWAMPED..

DZL JIM · May 23, 2011

To the OP:
If you want to compare how fast each are, call Unlimited and call Swamp's and ask them the same question:
For a 300/200% Hybrid injector, how much does yours empty in 2.0 ms?
End of discussion.

The rest is 100% tuning. You should have darn near complete smoke free driving with the small 200% nozzle.

Big Bore · May 23, 2011

DZL JIM said:
To the OP:
If you want to compare how fast each are, call Unlimited and call Swamp's and ask them the same question:
For a 300/200% Hybrid injector, how much does yours empty in 2.0 ms?
End of discussion.

The rest is 100% tuning. You should have darn near complete smoke free driving with the small 200% nozzle.

Thanks Jim, you are the one person who actually identified my question and responded to it.

powerstrokenstang · May 23, 2011

for that matter i have run jims injectors and they ran great to. i really dont think you can go wrong w/ any of these guys.

Big Bore · May 23, 2011

Dieselfever said:
Oh yeah, does anyone else smell a Troll??

Are you referring to me? If so, I fail to see how my post could be construed a trollish unless you are reading it through completely biased glasses. I didn't ask who builds a better injector or who's quality control is better or who has a cleaner shop or who's shop have you visited the most. I also stated I've used one of the manufacturers injectors and had no problem with them. I stated a very specific set of conditions and asked for any experience based on those conditions with each manufacturer. All I've gotten so far is a bunch of "My favorite is ______ because...", and with one exception no one addressed my question. I have a feeling they simply read the title, skipped the post, and started spouting off at the keyboard. Then along comes the implication that if I don't like brand X, I must be a troll. So basically, if you can't answer my question because you don't really know, let's discredit the OP instead.

Big Bore · May 23, 2011

powerstrokenstang said:
for that matter i have run jims injectors and they ran great to. i really dont think you can go wrong w/ any of these guys.

And please explain how that relates to my questions regarding actual injector performance. I didn't ask whose injectors runned good.

Bruno2 · May 23, 2011

Looks to me like your thread would be empty if no one chimed in. I think it is safe to say that nobody on the board has run both brands of the same injector so no one has an honest comparison of the two. So instead of just leaving you hanging with notta people spoke up with what they did know.

I dont know anything about the troll remark as far as what grounds they were using for thinking you were trolling.

Hotrodtractor · May 23, 2011

Well - I can't tell anyone that I don't have a little bit of a biased opinion - its pretty well known that Cass builds my injectors for my projects and customers - Nate at Unlimited gets a few sets from me now and then as well - particularly if it is something local to both of us and something that I want to have my fingers in a little closer than a normal set of injectors. With two injector builders that I already work with I typically stick with those shops for my work. That being said - I have been to Full Force, Unlimited, and Swamps - I even hung out with Dave and Jonathan for a couple of hours when passing through the area after hours in the shop - They definitely do some things right in my book, otherwise they wouldn't be associated with some of the current top trucks.

I don't know of anyone that can give you an unbiased opinion on whose 300/200 injector flows more - but when you call the shops in question and ask - make sure you also get the ICP number that goes with the pulse width and volume data.

Jason

TARM · May 23, 2011

As this is specific to Umlimted and Swamps I have to agree with Dave. Flow rate @ 2ms

I would find two people that have 200% nozzle and anything 250 or larger hybrids with fast mods (at this size likely amounts mainly to fuel side) and ask them for there flow sheet data that should have come with their injectors or can get from the builder. Get the data for 2ms / 3000 psi / 65 psi fuel / 195° oil temp.

While that may not tell the whole tale its a good comparison.

The reason I suggest getting it randomly from a end customer is it will prevent any questions of cherry pick'n by anyone.

I can Pm you the flow data for my 200% fast mod injectors from Nate if you can find someone with a set from Swamps which should not be hard I would think.

I can say from comparing my flow to what I have seen of other 200% injectors without these extra mods IMO it was well worth it to have it done. They picked up a significant amount of flow acrossnthe board and specifically where it matter 2 ms and under. Anything smaller than 200% and I think it would be a wash or so little to not be worth the additional cost. Have not done direct testing but based on generally accepted power to fuel volume in a usable injection time such as 2 ms 2.3-2.5 hp per cc/1000 shot. I look to pickup 50-60 hp. Likely closer to 50 hp. But when you are getting into that 600 hp range that is nothing to shake a stick at IMO.

As far as Unlimited or Swamps I do not think there is a bad choice to be had so I would go with who youbfeel most comfortable with, who your tuner recommends, or you can always go off price point, as cost does matter to a certain extent. I think no matter which you choose you will have a great customer service experience as well as parts performance and quailty excellence.

Charles · May 23, 2011

With a 200% nozzle it doesn't really make a damn. They are all going to flow nearly identically in terms of maximum flow at ____psi and ____pw. The nozzle is just too small to really yield any massive disparities.

So for an injector running a nozzle that small, you should not be shopping based on performance. You should be shopping based on how it will run. Even VOP, percentage disparity within the set, machined and surface ground components to ensure tolerance stability over time after they leave the shop.

These are the things that make one truck miss and stumble and another smooth as silk year after year.

These are the selling points for an injector with a nozzle as small as is being discussed here.

And lastly.... a 200 is a PERFECT DD nozzle. I don't care who's tuning you... if you're smoking like a train with a 200% nozzle just driving around, it's WRONG. This sh*t's not up for debate anymore. Because to be perfectly honest..... if you're running 400% nozzles and smoking like a train just driving around.... it's WRONG...

Sorry if that hurts anyone's feelings.

TARM · May 23, 2011

Charles I know I do not have near the time you have nor have I run a flow bench countless hours as you have but my injectors certainly seem to flow a good bit more than what I have seen some others without these mods. I believe I have also read the same. opinion from Jason when it comes to what size nozzles these mods start to really show siginificant gains.

Big Bore · May 23, 2011

I tried to reach the guys at Unlimited last week to ask exactly what has been suggested here. I'm sure it's TS recovery and all but so far they can't be raised. I'll be trying again this week.

On another note, 200% nozzles are universally excepted as DD friendly. 300% are said to be hazy at idle. I've noticed the nozzle sizes go in 100% increments once you get past a 100% nozzle. Is there some reason anyone knows of why a 250% nozzle isn't produced?