238/80's hazing at idle

TrailerHauler · Jan 27, 2014

Sounds like most of it is the nature of this old dinosaur. I have 160/80's and it smokes a bit when cold, and the exhaust will burn your eyes. I wondered for awhile if it was just me.

lariat 7.3 · Jan 27, 2014

You can still smell it even warm. Reduces greatly tho

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littleredstroker · Jan 27, 2014

SO how many of you that have hazing issues no longer have AIH?
fathers 96 hazes when its cold, because contrary to popular belief it seems, when a diesel is cold say 30* it is going to haze... I never had a issue with mine hazing with stock injectors, I never had a issue with mine hazing with 250/100s, I deleted the AIH and now it hazes, which would make sense because the purpose of the AIH is to reduce smoke after start up...

ive yet to see a obs NOT haze when its 30-40* for a few minutes which would also make sense as they don't have a AIH...

TrailerHauler · Jan 27, 2014

No AIH, and the CCV is routed to the atmosphere on mine. I'm still not sure how the CCV is relevant though.

TyCorr · Jan 27, 2014

Littlered is talking about the aih being responsible. But ive checked.my records since the last thread whsre he had me convinced that was it. I even reinstalled mine and it didnt do away with it. Maybe. But not on mine. It might contribute.

As might the ccv. Jakez theory was the downdraft tube might not allow the pressure to be evacuated from the motor. Forcing it out the exhaust or some damn thing.

If you guys think about it, the 7.3 is the first diesel emissions. The aih and ccv are both emissions attempts. Rudimentary in nature but none the less they do probably mitigate some of the nature of the diesel. The last time i have record of it not doing it was oct of 05. Did an oil change, fuel filter, trans, and front diff. I always started the truck and did a walk around, making notes. The next service included a 4" magnaflow exhaust with no muffler and ccv routed to downdraft tube. The truck started to.exhibit blue smoke. Had the dealer do a compression test. All cylinders were over 400psi. Running they were all near 600.

Im gonna say.tuners are right as are all of you guys. The tuners say it can be tuned out with timing. No reason to believe its not true. Some of you more observant guys have pointed to the aih, the ccv mods, and other things. Id say all are contributors. I will say either my outrageous hpo or fuel system made it worse. Im suspecting either weak hpo or low fuel pressure/volume was making it faint. I can NOT put those parts back for.comparison testing though. Sorry.

I think when someone has their tuner sit in or puts all the emissions crap back on and reports in, we'll know.

firehunter · Jan 27, 2014

AIH deleted, CCV still routed to stock intake (Ford AIS filter set-up).

TyCorr · Jan 27, 2014

Yours could be the manual pcm calibration as dave armstrong said.

littleredstroker · Jan 27, 2014

TyCorr said:
Littlered is talking about the aih being responsible. But ive checked.my records since the last thread whsre he had me convinced that was it. I even reinstalled mine and it didnt do away with it. Maybe. But not on mine. It might contribute.

As might the ccv. Jakez theory was the downdraft tube might not allow the pressure to be evacuated from the motor. Forcing it out the exhaust or some damn thing.

If you guys think about it, the 7.3 is the first diesel emissions. The aih and ccv are both emissions attempts. Rudimentary in nature but none the less they do probably mitigate some of the nature of the diesel. The last time i have record of it not doing it was oct of 05. Did an oil change, fuel filter, trans, and front diff. I always started the truck and did a walk around, making notes. The next service included a 4" magnaflow exhaust with no muffler and ccv routed to downdraft tube. The truck started to.exhibit blue smoke. Had the dealer do a compression test. All cylinders were over 400psi. Running they were all near 600.

Im gonna say.tuners are right as are all of you guys. The tuners say it can be tuned out with timing. No reason to believe its not true. Some of you more observant guys have pointed to the aih, the ccv mods, and other things. Id say all are contributors. I will say either my outrageous hpo or fuel system made it worse. Im suspecting either weak hpo or low fuel pressure/volume was making it faint. I can NOT put those parts back for.comparison testing though. Sorry.

I think when someone has their tuner sit in or puts all the emissions crap back on and reports in, we'll know.

Understandable... I guess I.should say this, out of the trucks I've seen haze at idle, none of them had a WORKING AIH. is that the only cause idk.. does ot contribute ? I believe so

Smoked a bit
Turbo lit
That was it

TyCorr · Jan 27, 2014

Dude, I thought you had it nailed down and i even looked the ford.definition of the aih up and posted it in in confirmation of what you are saying.

I went so far as to put mine back. Perhaps the heater and ccv work together to mitigate this issue and the mufflers make a huge.difference in what comes out of tailpipe. In fact, if you gut a muffler thats been behind a diesel.for a few miles there is some.crazy.**** in there. Water, soot, oily.crap, and the smell. Wowza.

lincolnlocker · Jan 28, 2014

If the ccv isnt 100% free flowing. its possible to build enough crank case pressure to start pushing oil out the turbo seals. That was the case on mine. Middle of summer it could be up to temp and if sat idling for more then 5 min the bluish white smoke would start to blow out the tail pipe. Put ccv back to the intake and walla, no more smoke... now below 60° it will haze white till warm then go away but johnathan said it may just need some more idle timming on cold starts... I've never seen a 7.3 or even a 6.0 start below 40° and be clear. Always a little bit of smoke..

live life full throttle

PSD POWER007 · Jan 28, 2014

Ok guys. After I did my injector install (PIS 175/80 singles) two weeks ago, I had smokey haze at cold start up very similar to the videos posted here. Very strong diesel smell. I talked to Jody at DP-Tuner about it and he wanted me to put about 200 miles on the injectors just to make sure all of the air was out of the system. After putting on the miles, there was no change. So I sent him a short video of the start up and smokey idle along with my ICP and IPR readings in relation to my oil temps. He sent me a tune revision and all of my cold start smoke at idle is gone. Small puff at start up like usual and then normal idle and smell again!!
So, in most cases, with a good injector install, this IS a tune related issue.
Good luck guys!!

BTW, I have my AIH and EBPV deleted and the CCV runs to the rear axle into a Guzzle style catch can.

mandkole · Jan 28, 2014

The larger the nozzles get, the less fine fuel control you have. Bills tunes on this truck run a little more ICP than the old truck with Tonys. Im sure he's going for some additional IP atomization, but I think it translates to more fuel on a cold cylinder and haze. I may mess with it at some point, but with as little as I drive it, throwing money at tuning adjustments isnt high on the list right now.

02BigD · Jan 28, 2014

TyCorr said:
Would I be better served to get one of these and ditch the srp1.1?

I was actually thinking about going to an SRP 1.1. The Gen3 is hard on oil...but throttle response is improved over a modified single pump IMO. So there's still a Gen 3 on it :shrug:

Gearhead · Jan 28, 2014

TyCorr said:
Yours could be the manual pcm calibration as dave armstrong said.

The DAC3 (manual)file that has the negative timing in it is at 0 rpm and is gone back to normal by 200 rpms so it only affects cranking timing.

TyCorr · Jan 28, 2014

Gearhead said:
The DAC3 (manual)file that has the negative timing in it is at 0 rpm and is gone back to normal by 200 rpms so it only affects cranking timing.

Well, I guess that rules that out,lol.

Its gotta be timing to fix the issue whatever the cause.

PSD POWER007 · Jan 28, 2014

TyCorr said:
Well, I guess that rules that out,lol.

Its gotta be timing to fix the issue whatever the cause.

Timing adjustment is what Jody did to fix mine.

TrailerHauler · Jan 28, 2014

Where's Joe at? LOL

lariat 7.3 · Jan 28, 2014

Just waiting to pounce

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V-Ref · Jan 28, 2014

EDH vs EH nozzles?

Powerstroke Cowboy · Jan 28, 2014

Mine smokes like that to. But has gotten better with tuning. I still have a felling Hybrids with 200% nozzles will be harder to control the first start smoke. Due to a couple things. First In order To get a smooth Idles you need to lower the ICP pressure. That in turn lowers the pressure the fuel is injected at. Then with a hybrid you also have a lower injection ratio. 7:1 AA code 6:1 B-Code 5:1 Hybrid.

So with a AA code you can have a nice smooth idle @ 750 ICP that comes out to 5250 injection pressure. now to get the same Idle from the 200% nozzle hybrid you need to pull ICP back to 500 or 450 if you want to be a little smoother. With 500 PSI ICP with a hybrid you have only 2500 PSI injection pressure. Less then HALF of what the AA code is . That is IF you are going by Idle quality and sound. Even if the AA code is set to idle @ 500 ICP it still has a injection pressure of 3500 that is still 1000 PSI more.

I feel this does play a part in the smoke we see. BUT is not full responsible for it. Like the others have said timing can play a part in that to.

I just cant stand the burn my eyes and throat feel when its like that. Need to keep working on it!