600hp was fun but boring. Going bigger!

lincolnlocker · Apr 15, 2013

vanderchevy18 said:
Very! Shot a full mile with it last July. It still had enough energy to dent the steel. It's incredibly accurate, but it's kind of high maintenance. It has a 33" Bartlein progressive twist barrel. If I'm lucky it will last me 750 rounds before needing set back an inch. The bolt had to be 100% custom made and the extractor is weak so every 50-60 rounds I have to change it out. Also it weighs 30 freaking pounds so it isn't something you carry around. It's exactly a high HP truck. There isn't anything on the road more awesome, but you definitely don't want it to be a daily driver.

thats fuggin phenomenal!! never knew they where that high maintenance..

DocBar · Apr 15, 2013

vanderchevy18 said:
Very! Shot a full mile with it last July. It still had enough energy to dent the steel. It's incredibly accurate, but it's kind of high maintenance. It has a 33" Bartlein progressive twist barrel. If I'm lucky it will last me 750 rounds before needing set back an inch. The bolt had to be 100% custom made and the extractor is weak so every 50-60 rounds I have to change it out. Also it weighs 30 freaking pounds so it isn't something you carry around. It's exactly a high HP truck. There isn't anything on the road more awesome, but you definitely don't want it to be a daily driver.

What's the advantage of a progressive twist barrel, especially if you have to do that much work. By set it back an inch, are you referring to where the barrel attaches to the receiver or the end of the barrel?

vanderchevy18 · Apr 15, 2013

The twist allows heavy bullets to be pushed fast without smearing the copper off the bullets.

Yeah by the receiver. With high volume cartridges the powder is still burning as it is pushed out the cartridge so the throat of the chamber gets eroded.

Tree Trimmer · Apr 15, 2013

meaning, it eases into the spin of the bullet, instead of going straight to a faster one.

on heavier rounds, using a faster twist, it doesn't go straight to fast spin.

it actually pushes straight through the rifleing, a fraction of a inch, then starts to spin.

this both marrs the rifleing on the barrel, and puts burrs on the bullet, and/or gives you crooked striations.

also when it pushes through the start of the rifling, it scrapes material off, and the material on the bullet has to go somewhere. it usually pushes straight out the back. throwing the balance off. i don't know a better way of describing it, and that one kind of sucked. you just have to be able to picture in your head what happens when the bullet instantly spins like it's supposed to, compared to traveling into the barrel a fraction of a inch THEN starting to spin.

i suppose, think of a nut and a bolt. push the bolt straight into the nut a threads worth, then start to turn it. same general principal. you will peel a thread off, straight back on the bolt, and then still expect it to turn with the extra material there. the nut(barrell) won't last long, and the bolt(bullet) will be all fked up when it gets to the other end, and your still expecting it to fly true.

all of which affect flight characteristics.

DocBar · Apr 15, 2013

vanderchevy18 said:
The twist allows heavy bullets to be pushed fast without smearing the copper off the bullets.

Yeah by the receiver. With high volume cartridges the powder is still burning as it is pushed out the cartridge so the throat of the chamber gets eroded.

Tree Trimmer said:
meaning, it eases into the spin of the bullet, instead of going straight to a faster one.

on heavier rounds, using a faster twist, it doesn't go straight to fast spin.

it actually pushes straight through the rifleing, a fraction of a inch, then starts to spin.

this both marrs the rifleing on the barrel, and puts burrs on the bullet, and/or gives you crooked striations.

also when it pushes through the start of the rifling, it scrapes material off, and the material on the bullet has to go somewhere. it usually pushes straight out the back. throwing the balance off. i don't know a better way of describing it, and that one kind of sucked. you just have to be able to picture in your head what happens when the bullet instantly spins like it's supposed to, compared to traveling into the barrel a fraction of a inch THEN starting to spin.

i suppose, think of a nut and a bolt. push the bolt straight into the nut a threads worth, then start to turn it. same general principal. you will peel a thread off, straight back on the bolt, and then still expect it to turn with the extra material there. the nut(barrell) won't last long, and the bolt(bullet) will be all fked up when it gets to the other end, and your still expecting it to fly true.

all of which affect flight characteristics.

Good explanations. Does this outweigh having to eventually replace the barrel and hoping you can tune it in just as well?

Chris, I honestly don't know how you afford such expensive hobbies. It's damned expensive just buying bullets for that Warbird. I bought one that was on consignment at a gun store in Lufkin, Tx about 12 years ago and resold it.

Having thought about the cost of ammo, maybe you won't be trimming that barrel back any time soon.

vanderchevy18 · Apr 16, 2013

Twist has nothing to do with the barrel erosion. It's the pressure and heat of over 100 grains of powder burning that causes the problem. Also, this one isn't your average rifle. It was built for 2 things. Absolute accuracy and speed. With a heavy bullet at long distance, speed is good. Less flight time means less wind variation. Faster bullet means less drop. Heavy fast bullet means it holds the energy farther. That keeps the bullet stable and supersonic when shooting 1500 to 1760 yards. I can toss a 200 Gr Berger hybrid 3,650 fps for long range shooting. It will do <1/4 MOA at 500 yards. Then my hot loads use 155 Gr Scenars that I have chronographed at 4,030 fps. The problem with doing that though is it shortens the life of the barrel. Same as pushing an engine to its limits.

If you buy the ammo then yes it's expensive. $100 for a box of 20. When you reload it yourself though it's like having a 300rum. Not bad. Also the rifle wasn't that expensive for being all custom. $3k vs $5k-$6k. My brother is a gunsmith so I get a pretty deep discount. LOL I just work a lot of hours to get the stuff I want. Which pisses me off even more when I see able bodied people on welfare on my dime...... But I digress. Again, it's just like trucks. After driving a tuned 7.3 its agony to drive a completely stock one. After shooting a custom rifle it's agony to shoot an off the shelf one.

lincolnlocker · Apr 16, 2013

amen to that vander^^^

live life full throttle

Tree Trimmer · Apr 16, 2013

i wasn't really going along the lines of barrel erosion, as opposed to what happens to the bullet.

vanderchevy18 · Apr 16, 2013

Right, but we're talking about 2 different things. The twist for the bullet and the short barrel life from erosion.

vanderchevy18 · Apr 16, 2013

Anyone want to jump in here with gun talk? I'm always up for it. We'll get back to my truck if I can ever get around to doing anything else to it. LOL

Getting a new one built. 6.5 Creedmoor. Haven't decided what daytime scope I'll be using, but I did get a fairly nice night vision scope for it!

ToMang07 · Apr 16, 2013

vanderchevy18 said:
Anyone want to jump in here with gun talk? I'm always up for it. We'll get back to my truck if I can ever get around to doing anything else to it. LOL

Getting a new one built. 6.5 Creedmoor. Haven't decided what daytime scope I'll be using, but I did get a fairly nice night vision scope for it!

The only guntalk I can participate in involves a hypothetical model 64 Savage getting a 3x9 scope on it, and me landing about 300 rounds of 22lr, other than that, no action cause I can't find any ammo!

sent while swerving into the wrong lane...

Powerstroke Cowboy · Apr 16, 2013

vanderchevy18 said:
Anyone want to jump in here with gun talk? I'm always up for it. We'll get back to my truck if I can ever get around to doing anything else to it. LOL

Getting a new one built. 6.5 Creedmoor. Haven't decided what daytime scope I'll be using, but I did get a fairly nice night vision scope for it!

Night Force for a daytime scope would be my vote.

vanderchevy18 · Apr 16, 2013

That sucks. Plenty of ammo around here. People are being stupid about this whole gun thing.

vanderchevy18 · Apr 16, 2013

I like nightforce, but the cross hairs are too thin. They disappear.

Powerstroke Cowboy · Apr 16, 2013

I have 4 to 5 thousand rounds of 22 cal ammo on the shelf.

I have burnt well over 20 thousand rounds since I got my first 22.. Lots of fun!

Powerstroke Cowboy · Apr 16, 2013

They do?? Wonder why? You can get different cross hairs. They should not do that! I know some scopes do that to me.

Swarviski?? German made!!

DocBar · Apr 16, 2013

vanderchevy18 said:
Right, but we're talking about 2 different things. The twist for the bullet and the short barrel life from erosion.

You're making me smile and laugh at myself with all this shooting talk. I tried getting into competitive shooting and long -range shooting about 20 years ago, not too long after I got out of the Army. I wanted to do the 1,000 yd stuff. I could consistently put rounds on target until the wind started to blow. I never could dope the wind very well. 600 yds and in, I was decent at, but over that was like witchcraft to me. I could drive tacks out to 300 yds. After a while, I realized that what I was looking for was unreasonable. I needed to be able to put a round in the kill zone, nothing more. If I can hit that, at a given yardage, I'm good. My personal "given" yardage is 400 yds. Outside of that, I won't squeeze the trigger.

SASS was a lot of fun. I liked using the old calibers and black powder. I also learned that I could shoot a 45-70, loaded with black powder, very accurately. That's when I got into reloading. I do handload. I just never found handloading the Warbird very economical compared to my .06. Especially for the accuracy that I look for. Nice rifle, though.

DocBar · Apr 16, 2013

vanderchevy18 said:
I like nightforce, but the cross hairs are too thin. They disappear.

One thing I've always wanted to try was a Shepherds scope. Have you ever met anyone that has used one?
LINK

vanderchevy18 · Apr 16, 2013

They're just too thin is all.

I don't shoot competitively. At least not the NRA F class sanctioned events. Just local stuff. Mostly ones I put on since I have a range. It's fun for sure.