Changing gear size

TyCorr

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They started at 70-80mph, and raced to 130-140mph+ before letting off. Not racing from 70mph to 80mph.

Thats what I was thinking!

A 450 with 4.88's can barely get to that speed. Much less start accelerating at that speed.

Id rather add power to overcome a slight deficiency in low end power. With a BTS like Charles has, there isnt much worry about the trans shatting the bed.
 

tbsimmons

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You havent been around long have you?

We went through this bs on the other site before. He HAS a 450 or 550. Its got inj's and a 38r in it as well. His 3/4 ton that he's talking about, up there, gets picked for work duty BEFORE the 450/550, aaaaand apparently when its not pinned to a trailer likes to eat expensive sports cars. Those 450/550's arent really any better off than a 3/4 ton except in stock form they have lower gears and stiffer springs. My 6" lift springs are stiffer than what they put in those 450's so thats a moot point. I used to pull a GN with a skidloader and about 5k lbs worth of chit everyday. Then on my way home that trailer would weigh 20k if not more. My truck handled en route load without squatting. The return trip it squatted but not too bad. Lift springs and tuning that include power adding and trans tuning make the need for a big heavy pig like the 550 obsolete for most guys. If I needed to run like that across the country hauling heavy loads Id get a Peterbilt or Kenworth. Ive been running 37's, 38's, and 40s with 3.73's for 265k miles. My trans slipped once last summer when it was 105* outside pulling a load but other than that Ive not had any trouble. Wore a rear R&P set out at 165kmiles. Im not seeing your point?!

Ill let him tell ya the rest...which Im sure is on its way...

Been around long enough, more so racing gas engines. This is not my first go around with a Diesel, my last truck was an 04 F350 SRW that was not stock.
But stating that a 3/4 ton can handle a load better than a 450 is down right wrong. No matter if you use a steel rod for rear springs, 2 tires on the road is not going to handle the weight better than 4. Been on both sides and can vouch for that one. Remember my 350 SRW was not stock, including the suspension.

They started at 70-80mph, and raced to 130-140mph+ before letting off. Not racing from 70mph to 80mph.

I read that wrong but it is still hard to believe when a rolling brick in the 8000# range and 600 HP can take a car that is 4000# and over 400 HP. SO he is in the 13 HP per # and the Benz is in the 10# per HP. Plus wind resistance at that speed in a rolling brick. Now I could believe it from a Dig for a quarter mile. But hell that Benz would most likely stay with or beat my moms 535i twin turbo that would hand my Impala its ass at pretty much any speed above 60, from a dig it is a different story, reason is weight and wind resistance. I doubt a 600 HP rolling brick could have stayed with either one.
 

tbsimmons

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For a lifted truck to overcome the wind resistance at that speed I would bet that he would have to have around 10.5-11 HP per # to overcome a car built to cruise at over 100. That would put him in the 6300-6600# range. A good comparison is look at cars running turbo or superchargers. They MPH way better for the same ET than these trucks. Weight and wind resistance kills the MPH.
 

TyCorr

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His truck is rc/lb...Charles truck that is. Its probably in the 6500lb range. He doesnt run 37's anymore either. I believe he is running 35's now.

My tires are wider than two of yours anyday of the week....on 12" wheels..like I said lifted with a tuner that truck isnt any better. I had one dually for a work truck for a while and hated it. I went back to a SRW. I dont subscribe to it. I had a blow out on the pass side rear two months ago at 65mph on the interstate and I let off the throttle and controlled the truck and trailer onto the shoulder and changed the tire. Done and done. I put 40-50k miles a year on my dedicated work trucks so I drive enough miles to know what does and doesnt work. I just got a 2012 dmax cc/lb srw and I dont ever want for a dually.

One part that I wont argue with you on is the trucks brakes. Your 450's and 550's have better brakes. My trailers always had brakes and so it wasnt an issue. I always stopped fine. Better than the late 80's early 90's 450's or 550's would stop the same load.
 

TyCorr

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Been around long enough, more so racing gas engines. This is not my first go around with a Diesel, my last truck was an 04 F350 SRW that was not stock.

I didnt mean that. I meant you havent been around here for long. This same debate was started by some guys on PSN who swore you couldnt tow with a lifted truck. Then you couldnt tow with a 6" lift but anything less was G2G. Then it went to you cant tow heavy with a 6" lift and a GN. Then it just got retarded and desperate. I was hoping you werent gonna go there. Guys came out of the woodwork with stock and modded R&P trucks with lifts and 37" tires towing heavy a$$ loads on non-modded GN trailers. Apparently its completely possible and happening everyday, even right now.

Again, I reinforce that a wide wheel/tire is every bit as stable as two six inch wide tires on 6" wheels.

My 2000 went down this very road for the first 240k of its 265k mile life. I still have it but its not callled on anymore. I have a 2012 if I need to yank something around. I did all this with a crappy 100hp tune and an upgraded tranny cooler. Lifted, huge tires, and around 310hp with 3.73's doing what it 'couldnt' and doing it well.
 

tbsimmons

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Been on both forums long enough and by the join date not much shorter than you.
Anything is possible, my 04 was lifted 6" with springs I had made for the rear a little more spring rate than a 1 ton and ran the 2" 3/4 ton blocks with air bags. I never said that it could not be done, just said that 2 tires on the road is not as stable as 4 because I have done it, too much sidewall give in my opinion or at least with the pin weight of my Toyhauler. Even with a 7000# tow behind I could tell a difference with the dually. That was the reason I got a dually. Didnt like the wind moving me any more with the SRW. I dont think the lift has too much to do with it, if done right and not too tall, but the pin weight plays a major roll.
 

TyCorr

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Been on both forums long enough and by the join date not much shorter than you.
Anything is possible, my 04 was lifted 6" with springs I had made for the rear a little more spring rate than a 1 ton and ran the 2" 3/4 ton blocks with air bags. I never said that it could not be done, just said that 2 tires on the road is not as stable as 4 because I have done it, too much sidewall give in my opinion or at least with the pin weight of my Toyhauler. Even with a 7000# tow behind I could tell a difference with the dually. That was the reason I got a dually. Didnt like the wind moving me any more with the SRW. I dont think the lift has too much to do with it, if done right and not too tall, but the pin weight plays a major roll.

I think the lift HELPS. I find ZERO drawbacks to the stiff lift springs. Its not that it doesnt hurt. It totally refines the way a suspension works. Not to mention if you evern pull the load offroad, the typical oversize truck tire is more aggressive and the lifted rig wont get stuck on wet grass, ha ha, I mean seriously. There are few feelings worse than backing a trailer and all of a sudden, due to throttle input, whoooop, you lose traction. I friggin hate that. My chevys for whatever reason hate backing a 14klb load up a driveway. They either lose traction or you have to literally mash the throttle to get it to push the load.

I dont have any experience with a 6.4L but the old big block, diesel wins in the grunt department.
 

cbrown

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Hahaha, this thread has been all over the place. Ive been busy the past couple days with birthday/ my last final tomorrow/ looking at getting a new tool setup while I can take advantage of student rates/ deciding between 4.30s or 4.56s. Before getting back on track, my truck is on 10" and 40s, buddies is on 16" and 40s, another friend had a 7.3 on 44s, plus multiple other people around with lifted trucks. We all tow, and tow heavy sometimes. Never a problem.

So anyways, like stated, Im still up in the air on 4.30s or 4.56s. I understand the arguement coming from both sides. I understand and agree with the need for a numerically larger gear with larger tires, easier on the drivetrain, etc. However, as Eric has stated, the truck has more than enough power as is and Id hate to over gear and have it revving too high. I think the biggest thing that has me hesitant on the 4.56s is the absolute horrible drivability of my buddys with 5.13s, though I realize that is a big jump over 4.56s. Aaron suggested 4.56s also, and ultimately that will probably be what I decide to run.

Thanks for all the input, Im certainly learning here.
 

Jeff@Spartan

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I guess you werent around for that other thread, on that other site either?

Shouldnt you be writing tunes or something?:flipa:

I'm sure I was around, I usually just don't pay too much attention to gears....unless it's going taller to go faster. :D
 

TyCorr

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Yeah yeah...I know u guys can tune and go...

Some of us have to work at it...twice usually.
 

KPSquared

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Wow. . .all this over a simple re-gear. The reason most guys don't bother is because it's cost prohibitive. Now because of that, it's become the norm.

I come from a wheeling back ground where gears are everything. I've never understood why puerile don't just a automatically re-gear for tire size. Seems like a total no brainer for such an easy job. If you can install a lift, you can re-gear an axle.

For all those with the gear vs. tire vs. rpm vs. speed questions, check out the gear calculator at grimjeeper.com. Totally customizable for your rig. Tells you every thing you need to know. I'd post a link but I'm on my phone. Just google it. . .

Just can't beat the right gears to have a truck run right. It just feels good when the gears are right.
 

Charles

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Wow. . .all this over a simple re-gear. The reason most guys don't bother is because it's cost prohibitive. Now because of that, it's become the norm.

I come from a wheeling back ground where gears are everything. I've never understood why puerile don't just a automatically re-gear for tire size. Seems like a total no brainer for such an easy job. If you can install a lift, you can re-gear an axle.

For all those with the gear vs. tire vs. rpm vs. speed questions, check out the gear calculator at grimjeeper.com. Totally customizable for your rig. Tells you every thing you need to know. I'd post a link but I'm on my phone. Just google it. . .

Just can't beat the right gears to have a truck run right. It just feels good when the gears are right.



I have personally replaced my rear R&P set twice due to wear, overheating from towing and my front R&P once due to full out failure in the case of the front pinion snapping off.

In all of those opportunities to change the ratio I selected the 3.73 ratio again and again because it is the best for my needs (sub 37" tires). Not because "it was what's in there".

There goes the idea that people run such ratios on lifted trucks for cost or ease reasons.





As for the guy that can't even conceive of a diesel pickup outrunning a cute little sport scar because he has overgeared his truck into a tractor... thanks for making my point for me.

As for hypothesizing about how it could, would or should go down between a diesel pickup and a little Benz.... it's much simpler than all that. I already DID it. TWICE!

When you roll out on somebody over a span from 70 to 80 all the way up to 120+ the deed is done. The bs stops. I did it.... then a minute or so later after driving up next to me with his passenger staring up at me with the most perplexed look on his face he nailed it again, at which point I lit the chargers off, reeled him back in and walked right on past him a SECOND time!

Done and done. The car had exhaust, that much I know from the obvious tone change from a stock model. Other than that, I haven't a clue what it had going on, other than a driver that was raising all kind of hell on the city streets just looking for trouble. And I gave it to him, in a superduty on 37" tires...


As for towing, I've melted a ZF6 out of my F-250 while towing, and also melted the rear diff down from towing. I'm talking 24,000+ at 70 to 75mph constant for a few hours. Problem with your gearing hypothesis is that I just got done replacing the ZF6 and the DANA 135 in my 550 that has 4.88 gears! It obviously didn't make too much of a *** now did it? The whole reason I got the 550 was because the driveline in my 250 wasn't up to the challenge, and OBVIOUSLY, the one in the 550 is no better. Not because I think _____, _____ or _____, but because in ACTUAL USEAGE the proof was in the pudding. Sh*t did exactly the same as my 250 driveline at the same power output and towing duties. The only additional penalty the 550 has was due to it's own additional weight. It is ~3000lbs heavier than my truck. However.... this weight is due to the very things that were supposed to make it better for towing, heavier axle (that burned up) larger brakes (that are nice) so on and so forth.

At the end of the day, I just got done replacing the same components on the 550 with a much larger rear axle with 4.88 gears that failed on my 250 with the little sterling and some 3.73's. Period. The sick part of it all, is that while they both towed at the same power, and failed in the same timeframe.... the little sterling in my 250 was taking over 600 rwhp pretty often, while the 550 is only ~300, max.

Kind of a joke when you think about it. Other than the brakes.... the 550 is no better. Not by conjecture.... by DIRECT EXPERIENCE...


As for the comment about the porsche. A good friend of mine that works not 2 minutes from my office, and also the shop where I started fabricating the compounds on my truck and have spent countless hours helping out with various cars and helped my buddy remove, install and modify various parts of his supra happens to be a professional tuner. And yes.... he also tunes porsches, and in fact has a GT2 he bought for the sole purpose of writing programs on, that they took and won the One lap of America race with last year. That one was tuned to mid 500's IIRC for durability. It would outrun the sh*t out of my truck as it sat. Now as for 400hp, I sat with him while he tuned a new porsche to 450rwhp not that long ago, then took off with him on the road test. There's nothing about a 400rwhp porsche that scares me bud.



On Edit:

Sorry, they won it in the porsche the year before last.

http://www.onelapofamerica.com/history/ShowEventDashboard.do?eventId=29


Last year they won it in a Nissan.

http://www.onelapofamerica.com/history/ShowEventDashboard.do?eventId=30


He tuned those cars exclusively. The supra I've helped with out of that shop consistently turns out 1100rwhp on fuel in full daily driven trim. I help with, watch the dyno tuning and then ride in and sometimes go to races with this guys and these cars. Point being I spend a lot of time with some gasser guys that know their sh*t. There's nothing gasser that's going to surprise me. Plenty of gasser sportscars can be outrun by a modest diesel pickup.

And there are plenty of trucks roaming the streets FAR faster than mine.
 
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Charles

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This thread took a bad turn...

If any of you guys ever stop argueing and decide to buy gears ill help you out. LOL


I've bought plenty of gears. Just in numerically lower ratios than what some seem to like. The "feel" is preferential, but being slow is not. Overgeared trucks are slower. Slower to accelerate, obviously slower up top and slower to spool when daily driving empty.

Plus they burn up all the fuel in the surrounding area trying to go down to the grocery store at 2000+rpm.
 

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