EGT getting up there fast? Problem?
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Jason
New member
On a ts style chip, anybody can. Except dp, and on a dp tuner chip, they are the only ones. As far as I recall, someone said (Jody or Diane) that the f8, could have other tuners programs wrote to it.
DP-TunerTech
New member
Just for the record this is not about who uses who. We do not get on here and bad mouth other Tuners or individuals. Heck we barely even get on here when someone like Charles is spreading false and inaccurate information and blatantly attacking us and what we do and our business.
Charles, use who you want to use and offer any advise you want but dont get on a public forum and use that as a platform to promote your own personal agendas or promote how smart you are or build yourself up by openly and deliberately spreading false information about someone else.
Charles you are getting way out of line. This is absolutely ridiculous.
The graphs you posted are such a joke in how you reference them. First the title at the top of them says PHP TUNES.......ARE YOU SERIOUS? How does anyone know really what you put on the screen especially considering your bias? I can have a monkey paint a picture and then post it up with some nice verbage and how is that any different? Seriously think about it, you bias is so obvious I laugh when I look at the graphs you posted.
Here is my favorite though and really shows your total lack of knowledge and your willingness to personally attack Jody at any cost whether or not it is true. You so graciously referenced 135 deg of timing on a 5 year old tune.........seriously Charles, you mean to tell me you were not aware of the fact this is in FORD'S STOCK tuning under certain oil temp, coolant temp, air temp and other factors? You did not know that? Really? I thought you were a genius on this stuff and you did not even know this is a stock Ford parameter they have in the stock tuning stating that IF certain parameters line up it can actually call for over 130 deg of timing and you post this out there as if Jody did this.
Most likely you will never see this on a stock truck BUT it is there if the conditions are met and Ford put it there. Now, this is altered slightly by year models but it is still scary high. No tune we sell can run a timing advance that high or even close due to overriding limiters that are in place so when you talk about BS then I am calling you out on that one.
You can set the tables to 150 deg BTDC and it makes no difference as there is an overriding table that will not allow it to go past that inputed number.
So you take a 5 year old tune where advances have been made by leaps and bounds by ALL tuners over the past 5 years. We have no way of knowing what the graph really is. You then list a built in FACTORY parameter that can ask for up to 130 deg of timing and you attribute that to Jody. Then you basically call him an ignorant moron on a public forum.
You and everyone else are entitled to his own beliefs or thoughts but you have gotten ridiculous Charles.
I am posting this so people will know not to just take what someone posts on the internet as the total truth because they post some graph or something. I mean in this situation here Charles is referencing something that is part of FACTORY tuning and trying to create an image to others that Jody did this. That is sneaky and wrong. Go pull a stock tune genius and tell me what the maximum allowable timing COULD be under CERTAIN parameters. Not what it is but what it could be and you list this as if this is what yours was. Wow!
423-709-8640. This is my number if you would like to finish this discussion personally and like adults. I look forward to hearing from you on the phone. If you choose to continue your rant then by all means knock yourself out but if you choose to bring your rant toward me then you call me personally. If you do not call me personally then dont bother throwing darts at me on a forum behind a keyboard. You have ran up several posts uncontested and you have had your say. I have now had my one and my say so from here there is no reason for anything on the forum from either of us be directed at each other in this thread. My offer stands and my number is listed above. The folks dont need to wade through alot of posts between you and I. Just call me and you and I can continue the discussion personally.
Carry on folks but please dont take EVERYTHING you read on a forum as the truth. The forums are a good place to get valuable information and gain tremendous knowledge. However they are forums where there are people that you may or may not know if you ran into them on the street and you have no way of being able to verify everything they are saying.
To anyone in this thread that has our product and has an issue, feel free to contact me personally and I will do everything I possibly can to help you. We are not perfect 100% of the time but we will try to help you and do the best we can.
James
Charles, use who you want to use and offer any advise you want but dont get on a public forum and use that as a platform to promote your own personal agendas or promote how smart you are or build yourself up by openly and deliberately spreading false information about someone else.
Charles you are getting way out of line. This is absolutely ridiculous.
The graphs you posted are such a joke in how you reference them. First the title at the top of them says PHP TUNES.......ARE YOU SERIOUS? How does anyone know really what you put on the screen especially considering your bias? I can have a monkey paint a picture and then post it up with some nice verbage and how is that any different? Seriously think about it, you bias is so obvious I laugh when I look at the graphs you posted.
Here is my favorite though and really shows your total lack of knowledge and your willingness to personally attack Jody at any cost whether or not it is true. You so graciously referenced 135 deg of timing on a 5 year old tune.........seriously Charles, you mean to tell me you were not aware of the fact this is in FORD'S STOCK tuning under certain oil temp, coolant temp, air temp and other factors? You did not know that? Really? I thought you were a genius on this stuff and you did not even know this is a stock Ford parameter they have in the stock tuning stating that IF certain parameters line up it can actually call for over 130 deg of timing and you post this out there as if Jody did this.
Most likely you will never see this on a stock truck BUT it is there if the conditions are met and Ford put it there. Now, this is altered slightly by year models but it is still scary high. No tune we sell can run a timing advance that high or even close due to overriding limiters that are in place so when you talk about BS then I am calling you out on that one.
You can set the tables to 150 deg BTDC and it makes no difference as there is an overriding table that will not allow it to go past that inputed number.
So you take a 5 year old tune where advances have been made by leaps and bounds by ALL tuners over the past 5 years. We have no way of knowing what the graph really is. You then list a built in FACTORY parameter that can ask for up to 130 deg of timing and you attribute that to Jody. Then you basically call him an ignorant moron on a public forum.
You and everyone else are entitled to his own beliefs or thoughts but you have gotten ridiculous Charles.
I am posting this so people will know not to just take what someone posts on the internet as the total truth because they post some graph or something. I mean in this situation here Charles is referencing something that is part of FACTORY tuning and trying to create an image to others that Jody did this. That is sneaky and wrong. Go pull a stock tune genius and tell me what the maximum allowable timing COULD be under CERTAIN parameters. Not what it is but what it could be and you list this as if this is what yours was. Wow!
423-709-8640. This is my number if you would like to finish this discussion personally and like adults. I look forward to hearing from you on the phone. If you choose to continue your rant then by all means knock yourself out but if you choose to bring your rant toward me then you call me personally. If you do not call me personally then dont bother throwing darts at me on a forum behind a keyboard. You have ran up several posts uncontested and you have had your say. I have now had my one and my say so from here there is no reason for anything on the forum from either of us be directed at each other in this thread. My offer stands and my number is listed above. The folks dont need to wade through alot of posts between you and I. Just call me and you and I can continue the discussion personally.
Carry on folks but please dont take EVERYTHING you read on a forum as the truth. The forums are a good place to get valuable information and gain tremendous knowledge. However they are forums where there are people that you may or may not know if you ran into them on the street and you have no way of being able to verify everything they are saying.
To anyone in this thread that has our product and has an issue, feel free to contact me personally and I will do everything I possibly can to help you. We are not perfect 100% of the time but we will try to help you and do the best we can.
James
KPSquared
New member
James, I appreciate you coming on here and defending your product. I know you want Charles to call you and have this out on the phone, but the fact is, he called you out publicly with what seems to be a fair bit of information. . . your response was "don't believe what you read". . . I would really love you guys to post something to read that we can believe in. The above quote has the part that stood out the most to me. . .
If someone calls you out publicly, either prove them wrong publicly, or just hope people don't believe them. . .the latter of which is almost impossible. At this point, lots of crap has been said about DP's product. I would love to know how and why it isn't true. . .like it or not, right here, online, on a public forum is where the world now exists. . .I don't want to be a prick, but it seems like it's time to **** or get off the pot.
DP-TunerTech
New member
KPSquared,
I appreciate your reply and I will have to see how much I can or cannot post. I hope you understand the info I can or cannot share does not belong to me but I will try to address what you say as you have a good point to some degree but then again I or anyone else can post anything and what does it mean? You said it yourself, either people will believe it or they will not and you want to believe something based on how "NICE AND PRETTY" of a presentation someone put together? What does that mean?
Nonetheless, I will see what I can do. I am about to go get my daughter so I will be stepping out for a little while. Again, I can appreciate your post and respect your the way you are thinking.
Also, can you prove, or anyone for that matter that his graphs or his opinions are fact? What would it take? What if an idependent individual took multiple trucks of people running our tunes and the tunes were pulled off with our permission and the actual TOTAL timing was looked at? Would that resolve the issue? That is really the only way to resolve the issue. If that was then proven where the timing was by someone independent would that satisfy all the skeptics and nonsense? I am not saying that is what will happen, just posing a question.
I appreciate your reply and I will have to see how much I can or cannot post. I hope you understand the info I can or cannot share does not belong to me but I will try to address what you say as you have a good point to some degree but then again I or anyone else can post anything and what does it mean? You said it yourself, either people will believe it or they will not and you want to believe something based on how "NICE AND PRETTY" of a presentation someone put together? What does that mean?
Nonetheless, I will see what I can do. I am about to go get my daughter so I will be stepping out for a little while. Again, I can appreciate your post and respect your the way you are thinking.
Also, can you prove, or anyone for that matter that his graphs or his opinions are fact? What would it take? What if an idependent individual took multiple trucks of people running our tunes and the tunes were pulled off with our permission and the actual TOTAL timing was looked at? Would that resolve the issue? That is really the only way to resolve the issue. If that was then proven where the timing was by someone independent would that satisfy all the skeptics and nonsense? I am not saying that is what will happen, just posing a question.
Arisley
Moderator
Sounds like a great idea. Great discussion guys, lets keep it civil (like it has been).
I think thats all anyone is asking for. Kpsquared is a customer so his concerns are the most legitimate,imo. Im simply curious what values are in place. I know what values my own tuning utilizes and would like to see a comparison myself. I know a year and some change ago the tunes on my buddies dp tuner were running enough timing that it was audible in the form of engine noise. The best way for me to describe it is crunchy.
Hotrodtractor
Moderator
The graphs are easy to prove as fact if someone had the software and hardware to copy a tune off of a chip or a computer to look at. If you can pull off a tune and look at the tables and screen shot the tables just as Charles has done - that's fact. The tuning software is too widely used and available to be considered anything other than fact when looking at the graphs of the tables.
As to whatever opinion Charles might have on how the computer takes the information contained in the tables and transforms it into the actually timing that can be verified on a running engine via a simple oscilloscope - if you feel that his view is an opinion on how it operates and that it operates differently -please present your theory of operation with supporting evidence to support your opinion. That is how discussion of adults in a technical environment goes, and how decisions and resolutions are made. Obviously there is some discontinuity here between what a couple of different camps believe to be fact - and at least one, possibly both of you are wrong. Both can't be right.
TrailerHauler
New member
:whs:
I would prefer to see someone prove them false, right here, not over the phone.
I would prefer to see someone prove them false, right here, not over the phone.
Please see the new thread started, maps to follow.
Itd probably be extremely wise to provide a link. Who are you, how do you fit into this, and where is the new thread?
Thanks!
You are correct Sir.
The new thread is in the 7.3 Aftermarket and the title is "Charles, lets talk tuners"
Thank you!
Hotrodtractor
Moderator
I think you need to double check this.... Is this really the BASE map? or is this the cumulative timing giving a certain set of conditions? I tend to believe its not the BASE map. With all the accusation being thrown around - it sure would be nice if everyone had their i's dotted and t's crossed before posting any information. If my assumption about this being the cumulative timing under a set of conditions is incorrect - I apologize - if it is correct - please post the set of conditions so we can all learn and compare apples to apples.
Powersmoker
New member
Subscribed.
thuglike
Active member
He doesn't know...he'll have to go ask.
powerstrokenstang
New member
I would rather know my timing after injector delay is taken in to account.
JoeDaddy
New member
Ouch! LOL
DP, this could all be ended if you accept responsibility for your actions - we all have to do it eventually. You were doing the best you could with the limited knowledge you had, and so was every other tuner. Everyone knows the understanding of these PCM's have made leaps and bounds over the last few years, and we could attribute this to the community working together as a whole.....and possibly because of threads like this.
But to say that programs pulled off of rod'd truck are made up.....or somehow doctored, that's absurd. Your older programs have been floating around for quite awhile and many use them to see what NOT to do, sucks - but thats how it is. Even Edge and other big company's had some VERY similar looking files, but you were the guy that took the biggest hit.
And lets not forget the Engine Failure Survey conducted a few years back, there is no arguing that one!
Nothing personal, I would like to see us all move beyond this argument.....its starting to get old!
But to say that programs pulled off of rod'd truck are made up.....or somehow doctored, that's absurd. Your older programs have been floating around for quite awhile and many use them to see what NOT to do, sucks - but thats how it is. Even Edge and other big company's had some VERY similar looking files, but you were the guy that took the biggest hit.
And lets not forget the Engine Failure Survey conducted a few years back, there is no arguing that one!
Nothing personal, I would like to see us all move beyond this argument.....its starting to get old!
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