H-11s vs ARP's

[bigrpowr]

here's a paragraph from my cab on instructions... need i say more about what i thought i had?

Step 8- set supplied washer on stud, moly coated side facing up. Then put supplied washer on, making sure you applied a light coat of moly. You should be able to finger the nut all the way down. Then using a 13/16 12 point socket, and a torque wrench, begin tightening. ( when torque the nut, we found the chrome cracking off the socket, so it may not be a bad idea to have an extra on hand, just in case) We used elite H-11 studs, and we torqued each nut to 105 then loosened it up and retorqued doing this 3 times. After all 10 studs are in the head and torqued to 105 you may then start with the 145 in sequence, then 195 in sequence. By this time, from removing the headbolts, you should know what extension and angle works for each stud, as they are all different. Always be careful of injector wiring and solenoids. These are very delicate and can be VERY costly if you damage one. Be sure the torque wrench has proper extension to clear the tops and wires to
the injectors.

 

[Jhaddox]

:whs: from the amount ive talked with Mike, hes a straight shooter and tells you like it is

Honestly, it sucks that the studs are what they are. The info is now out there now and everyone can go on with w/e path they want for studs. If the H-11 stud has worked for you and you dont have a problem with it, Great.

A lot of people that bought the Elite studs did so before ARP even had a stud, so you didn't exactly have an option anyway.

We needed an option for a stud at the time they were made and were given what was needed...they were great for the time being, now there is a very similar product with a lower price tag...just a case of more options coming out down the road

Just have to move on and keep going...a lot of us have spent money on parts with the only thing to go on is the word that it will work

 

[oneturboforme]

Mink I agree with you the only part i even got upset on was the its not worth the time comment... But Jd is a good guy and was caught up in the moment I'm sure he regrets saying that, as for there silence I'm sure there trying to get there story strait with all there facts that ARE true and finding a way to move forward... It's exactly what they should do.... Sorry to any of the elite guys i know after last night you may think i was gunning for you but that was not my intentions at all, sorry for all these grief but the truth about this kinda stuff has to come out... I really feel for the honest guys that modify and repair trucks for a living who has to call there customera and tell them that what they thought they have in there truck is incorrect

 

[O2ShootTheJ]

Well thats a pretty rotten deal that I paid $400 more for studs that are maybe at most marginally better than ARPs. I'm pretty sure when I was looking/buying them on elite's site they were listed at 240,000 tensile strength and h-11. Thats why I got them over ARPs, because I thought they were stronger.

Am I going to sue, no that's silly, especially over $400. Am I disappointed? yes If I had known this I probably would have gone with ARP studs as I'll probably never get much farther than 800HP

 

[F250stroker08]

probably the best post of this thread, some are still trying to stir more of a fight and get more out of it, but honestly there isnt much that can be said at this point, like you said move on, move forward and make it right, bout all that can be done.

I wasnt tryin to stir the pot Dustin. Am i frustrated? Absolutely. But whats done is done. I like many others am a die hard Ford fan and would like to see everyone succeed because we are all here for the same reason (at least i hope). I should have just pm'd you the link for you to take care of it.

 

[Dzchey21]

Its no worries, i can understand everyones frustrated, we all assumed we had h-11s from the get go, it is what it is, im sure as hell not pulling my cab to change studs or anything like that. I do feel bad for thoughs who had the option between elites and ARP's and chose the Elites thinking they were better. I didnt have an option so like i said no big deal anyway.

 

[MINK]

Mink I agree with you the only part i even got upset on was the its not worth the time comment... But Jd is a good guy and was caught up in the moment I'm sure he regrets saying that, as for there silence I'm sure there trying to get there story strait with all there facts that ARE true and finding a way to move forward... It's exactly what they should do.... Sorry to any of the elite guys i know after last night you may think i was gunning for you but that was not my intentions at all, sorry for all these grief but the truth about this kinda stuff has to come out... I really feel for the honest guys that modify and repair trucks for a living who has to call there customera and tell them that what they thought they have in there truck is incorrect

Understandable - you sir have taken allot of chit the past couple days some justified and some not, at the end of the day you educated many of us with some cold hard facts.

 

[F250stroker08]

Understandable - you sir have taken allot of chit the past couple days some justified and some not, at the end of the day you educated many of us with some cold hard facts.

And at that I believe its time for a cold one.

 

[MINK]

And at that I believe its time for a cold one.

bro it's always time for a cold one.LOL

 

[derrick36]

i am many things , but a liar i am not. i thought my studs were h-11's. i did the first cab on stud job back in 09' and i thought i had h-11's. based on my experience with ARP's and their retarded tq values when they first release a stud, (they were about 30lbs light on the final tq #) i was one of the first to have a set on a 7.3 back in 04, i never wanted that headache ( 2 blown hg's) again. i dont talk to the employees at elite, i talk to tadd, since day 1, and i dont think ive ever had a discussion in regards to studs and what they're made of. but i sure as hell thought i had h-11's. please dont try to put words in my mouth like i should have been corrected or i should have known.

Where did I ever call you a liar? I don't think that at all. If anything, it sounds like YOU were told less than the truth.

You're one of the people who has defended Elite's studs vs. ARP's, so my thoughts were that at some point in your relationship with Elite that the correct info would've been given to you....Especially since Tadd was apparently correcting people from the get go.

But if the conversation never came up, then it never came up.

 

[Mike@MPD]

Well lets just say i am definitely going to push the ARPs as hard as i can and we will see how they do.

Sent from my Droid Charge

 

[SEABEE08FX4]

Wow just wow, I don't know what else to say.

I don't have a dog in this fight but there were quite a few people bagging on this guy (oneturboforme) and somewhere in this pile of fail I may have missed it but I didn't read anywhere where he was given an apology.

Just seems like the right thing to do given the situation.

Again not trying to stir the pot or point fingers but that's what I got out of all of this.

 

[BFT]

That whole fiasco was because of the intake manifolds.

 

[oneturboforme]

Seabee Wayne did in a pm over the comment about me being wrong with the finger pointing crap.... I was outta line claiming elite copied gogos intake thats my opinion and have no facts on it other then how similar the look.....

Heard back from arp....

Hello Kyle The torque was 325ft lbs with ARP moly lube and now it is 210 ft lbs with ARP ultra torque lube. It's the difference in the lube only. RonF

This thread is probably to far off topic but hopefully the info helps someone understand why they changed the values

 

[Jeff@Spartan]

That whole fiasco was because of the intake manifolds.

To be honest, I'm glad the fiasco has occurred. 99.9% of us, you included, assumed that we had H-11 studs in our trucks. I now know that I don't. Next time I buy head studs for a 6.4L, I'll actually know what I'm looking for and what to buy. I damn sure won't be spending $700 on studs that I can get for $450.

 

[Dzchey21]

Seabee Wayne did in a pm over the comment about me being wrong with the finger pointing crap.... I was outta line claiming elite copied gogos intake thats my opinion and have no facts on it other then how similar the look.....

Heard back from arp....

Hello Kyle The torque was 325ft lbs with ARP moly lube and now it is 210 ft lbs with ARP ultra torque lube. It's the difference in the lube only. RonF

This thread is probably to far off topic but hopefully the info helps someone understand why they changed the values

I figured that was right.

What makes me wonder is if some elite studs were h11 at one point. Otherwise the torque value is obviously way low on them as they should be probably close to what arps are. And I can't really imagine them making them with a significant lower clamping force unless it has something to do with the lube in elites sets? No.clue on that one

 

[SEABEE08FX4]

Seabee Wayne did in a pm over the comment about me being wrong with the finger pointing crap.... I was outta line claiming elite copied gogos intake thats my opinion and have no facts on it other then how similar the look.....

Heard back from arp....

Hello Kyle The torque was 325ft lbs with ARP moly lube and now it is 210 ft lbs with ARP ultra torque lube. It's the difference in the lube only. RonF

This thread is probably to far off topic but hopefully the info helps someone understand why they changed the values

Gotcha, that's cool then.

I have to say until this thread I thought the same though ( that there was 6.4 H-11's ) but it's all interesting none the less.


Anyhow carry on I don't mean to derail.

 

[oneturboforme]

Still dustin to get proper bolt preload it has to be preloaded... That's why I kept digging into this bc if the the bolts have the same pitch and lube ect the force will hqbe to be greater on the higher tensil strength ones to get to this point correct? The low tq rating of elites kept making me bring that up.... And for the first elites might have been h11s I mean it might be but i doubt it ot takes serious cash to set up those machines but it is a possiblity, also elites studs may have a finer pitch to them but i don't know without both there's and the arps specs which i doubt they will release..

 

[oneturboforme]

That's crazy how much lube effect these those... I mean I wonder if someone was to back of the old arps like you do with elites and torqued them to the lower value if it wpuld hold as good as they do at the higher 325 setting

 

[Dzchey21]

Still dustin to get proper bolt preload it has to be preloaded... That's why I kept digging into this bc if the the bolts have the same pitch and lube ect the force will hqbe to be greater on the higher tensil strength ones to get to this point correct? The low tq rating of elites kept making me bring that up.... And for the first elites might have been h11s I mean it might be but i doubt it ot takes serious cash to set up those machines but it is a possiblity, also elites studs may have a finer pitch to them but i don't know without both there's and the arps specs which i doubt they will release..

Basing off the info that idkillinit posted is that its not necessary to.have more clamping force with higher torque... I might have to dig up the old thread and see what math he used to get the values
It made sense to me at the time.