H-11s vs ARP's

[bigrpowr]

Oneturboforme - do you have pics of ur single setup? You aren't really known so I'd like to see your setup.

 

[bigrpowr]

Basing off the info that idkillinit posted is that its not necessary to.have more clamping force with higher torque... I might have to dig up the old thread and see what math he used to get the values
It made sense to me at the time.

Psn library.

 

[oneturboforme]

Ya i do its in a thread that I started.. I think its called my mpd single kit.... all try to post more but I'm to busy riding my turbo 900 Kk at the moment

 

[BFT]

To be honest, I'm glad the fiasco has occurred. 99.9% of us, you included, assumed that we had H-11 studs in our trucks. I now know that I don't. Next time I buy head studs for a 6.4L, I'll actually know what I'm looking for and what to buy. I damn sure won't be spending $700 on studs that I can get for $450.

I honestly wouldn't know the difference. Someone says h11 I think of elite studs, never once did I think of all these differences. I just know how to put stuff together and follow instructions. I also figured the price was higher towards the end because of the cost on elites end and that they were the first to have studs for the 6.4.

 

[PTSUPERD]

I like tacos. Geez...

 

[BFT]

Quit flirting with meoke:

 

[PTSUPERD]

Quit flirting with meoke:

LOL.

 

[cbrown]

So just looking on Elite's website....whats the new blowout price on the studs? Plans to redesign and actually use H-11 or some other material? Or just scrap it all?

 

[madman1234509]

Well unless they come up with some data quick, or lower their price, Id imagine they would lose business on the studs. If someone knows two sets of studs are made from the same thing and no one has evidence of which is stronger, why spend the extra money. Ive never seen arp studs had a catostrophic failure, nor have I seen elites but as far as anyone is concerned they could be just as strong as one another. You cant keep the price high soley based on you were the first company to have them. I could see if you were the ONLY company to have them...

 

[cbrown]

Exactly. Site says they will be sold below cost, so it may be a good deal. As far as Im concerned until there is data that proves "the tooling process makes them better"...they are rebranded ARPs sold for $200+ more. So basically a sale on ARP studs.

 

[BFT]

I thought they were 2 different types of materials with the same strength?

 

[MINK]

Exactly. Site says they will be sold below cost, so it may be a good deal. As far as Im concerned until there is data that proves "the tooling process makes them better"...they are rebranded ARPs sold for $200+ more. So basically a sale on ARP studs.

Wrong they are NOT arps..Diff lube, instructions/trq specs, etc...

 

[cbrown]

I thought they were 2 different types of materials with the same strength?

Joking right?

 

[oneturboforme]

I assure you there not remarked arps a1 is a very good company, I believe there different metals in it im sure there similar... But companys usually keep what exact minerals are in there products secret so people don't copy them... But yes they have the same tensil strength

 

[cbrown]

Wrong they are NOT arps..Diff lube, instructions/trq specs, etc...

So they are ARPs...with a different installation procedure

 

[MINK]

So they are ARPs...with a different installation procedure

Joking right?

 

[cbrown]

Im not saying they actually are rebranded ARPs. But if they are made from the same material- keep in mind this was verfified by the A-1 rep- then they are basically the same. Regardless of what is used to install them, the stud is still the same. The difference is obviously coming in the istallation procedure.

 

[BFT]

Joking right?

No, why would I be joking. The materials used on both have been posted

 

[cbrown]

Man this is gonna start this tread again.... So a_1 studs are the same material as arp2000 they ate not h11s here the email I got back from them... Looks like someone is trying to upgrade a product to something its not...

Kyle,

Unfortunately, someone has caused some confusion on the particular product for which you are inquiring. The material of the current A1 Ford 6.4 ltr. head stud kit we manufacture is made from AMS6304 also know as 17-22A, as requested by our original distributor. This is the same material that ARP uses and renames ARP2000. Now for the torque, I am guessing that the 310 ft. lbs. you mention below that ARP calls out for their 6.4 head stud is a typo and you meant 210 ft. lbs. If not I honestly cannot give you any logical explanation for the 310 ft. lb. as that makes no sense to use such a torque for that stud. If the 310 ft. lbs. of torque is used my guess is that it would yield the ARP stud causing permanent stretch and making it a one-time use “torque to yield fastener”. That is only my opinion based on physical properties and logic but I cannot nor do I imply to speak for them. If you look at an older ARP catalog you will see that for their ARP2000 material, 220,000 psi in 5/8” stud they called out 208 ft. lbs. using their ARP moly lube, which seems reasonable. I can also tell you that their torque values have changed as their new “ARP ultra torque” assembly lube is less efficient, (not as slick) and requires more torque to achieve the same result of stretch / clamp-load, but even with the change in lube 310 ft. lbs. seems beyond extreme.

Finally, to help you with the performance of the A1 head studs, if you use our recommended lube, International Compound #2, you can torque the A1 Ford 6.4 ltr. head studs made from 17-22A to 205 - 210 ft. lbs. This will give you a substantial increase in clamp-load on the stud, compared to the 180 ft. lb. torque you mentioned and should eliminate any further gasket problems.

If you have any questions or we can be of further assistance, please feel free to contact us any time.

Don Trapp

Director of Sales

What am I missing?

 

[oneturboforme]

Cbrown you would have to find the exact different metals in each one, and the thread pitches may be different... And the lube Is also differnt as ypu see arp redesigned there lube and dropped ther tq value 100ft/lbs... Do they stretch at the same pressure? The answer is yes... Think of it like nozzles.. there are rhe same size as others and flow the same.. gets the job done the same just different companies