H-11s vs ARP's

jdgleason · Jan 26, 2012

derrick36 said:
Yeah, but couldn't that be something where they ONLY make H11's for Elite and no one else?

That could be the reason he's only mentioning the ones that are the same as ARP.

We have now changed the description on our website to make sure it doesnt ever get confused again. They were NOT advertised as H-11 previously.
https://www.elitedieselengineering.com/product/14005001/Head-Stud-Kit/

oneturboforme · Jan 26, 2012

Thanks Jd for that that helps a lot with the bickering of who's wrong... Now for tge real question do yoy feel like you should up the tq value like the a1 guy said or leave it? I just want to make it so all the playing feilds of these studs are equal...

jdgleason · Jan 26, 2012

oneturboforme said:
Well maybe they are confused about what they really are.getting with there studs... From the responce i got from a1 he looked like he knew what he was talking about... There could be a mistake and wop and the other guys could be thinking there getting h11s but aren't... Who knows who's wrong on this but why would a a1 guy Say there not h11s.. kinda would make his company look bad don't you think? Either way someone should up the tq on there studs and see if it helps, ofcourse thats to the guys with high hp big compound setups

Don is a very knowledgable man. These studs were spec'd with this torque number, and there shouldnt be a reason to change the torque on them. We have never had an issue.

oneturboforme · Jan 26, 2012

Thank you Jd.. just curious what the 625s tq to and what the tensil on them is... Maybe that's what's next if you guys at elite don't stop making all these high hp truck and all these parts that are soo temping to us average guys

jdgleason · Jan 26, 2012

oneturboforme said:
Thank you Jd.. just curious what the 625s tq to and what the tensil on them is... Maybe that's what's next if you guys at elite don't stop making all these high hp truck and all these parts that are soo temping to us average guys

Sure thing buddy. Should be 250 ft lbs on those.

Wayne · Jan 26, 2012

oneturboforme & guys at MPD:

I would like to publicly apologize for any of my previous statements that could now be deemed incorrect. I have been aware for a very long time that Elite's 6.4 head studs are not made of H-11 tool steel, but since most everybody here has been referring to them as H-11 I never bothered clarifying the terminology. I was also under the impression that Elite's studs are made of a superior material to the ARP's. Since that is clearly not the case (new information to me, thanks to oneturboforme, and the questions that followed) I stand corrected on comparison information based on any consideration of Elite's studs being made of a superior material to the ARP alternatives. Good luck Craig and Mike with your quest to keep the heads on that truck.

oneturboforme · Jan 26, 2012

So the options we have currently for out 6.4s are the arp2000 and the a1 7122 which both have a tensil strength of 220,000 correct? Now we don't know what the thread pitch of the studs are.... Well atleast i dont so its kinda hard to say clamping force....oh I also am contacting arp again asking why they changed the tq value.... Then we step up to 625s which are 260000 tensil stength... A pretty big jump it might be what the high hp guys are pushing towards if the boost and bp keep rising, does arp have 625s out for our trucks? I know the dodges can get them

jdgleason · Jan 26, 2012

oneturboforme said:
So the options we have currently for out 6.4s are the arp2000 and the a1 7122 which both have a tensil strength of 220,000 correct? Now we don't know what the thread pitch of the studs are.... Well atleast i dont so its kinda hard to say clamping force....oh I also am contacting arp again asking why they changed the tq value.... Then we step up to 625s which are 260000 tensil stength... A pretty big jump it might be what the high hp guys are pushing towards if the boost and bp keep rising, does arp have 625s out for our trucks? I know the dodges can get them

You are correct, sir. The 625s are ridiculously overkill for most people. The only set I know of out and about are going on white monsters truck. And as far as I know, the only stud ARP offers is the 2000. Maybe you can verify that when you speak with them.

Dustball8504 · Jan 26, 2012

So what makes them different then?

oneturboforme · Jan 26, 2012

Dustball8504 said:
So what makes them different then?

I think your asking what makes the a1 7122s different from the arps.... Obviously its differwnt amounts of metal ect... So mayne each one acts diff to heat and ect.. and i imagine the top thread pitch is probably different.. along with lube and tq values.... Tensile strength is the same however

Tree Trimmer · Jan 26, 2012

well, if i interpreted the reading correctly, nothing. they are the EXACT same thing. i have been wrong before though.

Dustball8504 · Jan 26, 2012

Tree Trimmer said:
well, if i interpreted the reading correctly, nothing. they are the EXACT same thing. i have been wrong before though.

That's what I got when I read it but I've been wrong before so we'll see LOL

madman1234509 · Jan 26, 2012

Ok my questions now are...

1. If they are made from the same material as ARP studs... Why are they over 200 dollars more?

2. Why are they able to be reused and arps supposedly arent?

3. Why was there dicussion that you should only use elites lube on elites studs and now arps lube.... if they are the same material?

If someone gets a hold of ARP ill be interested to see their explanation as to why directions say to torque them to 325 ftlbs as compared to elites studs that are over 100ftlbs less

oneturboforme · Jan 26, 2012

Jd as far as arp 625s for i truck I believe not... I can't find them for any powerjoke actually but they have them for the fummins and the dirtymax.... Maybe they just don't see a big enough buyer margine

cbrown · Jan 26, 2012

jdgleason said:
We have now changed the description on our website to make sure it doesnt ever get confused again. They were NOT advertised as H-11 previously.
https://www.elitedieselengineering.com/product/14005001/Head-Stud-Kit/

Not trying to start another argument but...I believe they were. I have been back and forth between Elite's and Rudy's website plenty of times. On Rudy's site, the product description was an EXACT copy and paste from the Elite website. Good move on changing your site quickly, but here is what is on Rudy's.

This kit includes high-strength H-11 tool steel head studs, washers, and nuts. The top of each stud has a hex broach to aid in installation of the studs. The studs are rated at a minimum of 240,000 psi tensile strength. These are the STRONGEST head studs on the market. Our studs are designed to be reused. These are great for those looking for reliability or for you power-hungry owners.

http://www.rudysdiesel.com/_e/Engine_Parts/product/RDP-H11/Elite_Diesel_H11_Head_Stud_Kit.htm

oneturboforme · Jan 26, 2012

Madman, they are similar as far as strength goes... They have diff. Metals in them.... Arps can be reused call them and ask them for yourself, thread pitch has a huge factor on clamping force and the a1 studs could have a finer threads...arps are pretty fine tho

oneturboforme · Jan 26, 2012

Cbrown.... There has to be a good reason why elite probably didnt know... I cant see them bluntly lying to there customers like that..

bigrpowr · Jan 26, 2012

What a crazy thread this turned out to be, in a good way. I always thought they were h-11's. I didn't know A-1 made any other. I know when Tadd got studs built year ago, he had to spend a ton to get them made. Only reason I know is because I asked him why so much. I'm sure he wanted to recoup the investment and set the price where he dId for that reason. At that time the arp was not even thought of yet. I never trusted arp cuz the way the ***ked me on tq specs for the 7.3 studs. Cool thread.

cbrown · Jan 26, 2012

Wayne said:
oneturboforme & guys at MPD:

I would like to publicly apologize for any of my previous statements that could now be deemed incorrect. I have been aware for a very long time that Elite's 6.4 head studs are not made of H-11 tool steel, but since most everybody here has been referring to them as H-11 I never bothered clarifying the terminology.

They knew they werent H-11, but rode on the fact that others assumed they were. People werent referring to them as H-11 because its easier to say, but because they were under the impression they were made of H-11 tool steel. So instead of clarifying what they actually were, you let the misconception continue? Again, not trying to start an argument, bash any person, company, etc. I have much respect for all you guys, just laying out what I see that doesnt add up.

jdgleason · Jan 26, 2012

madman1234509 said:
Ok my questions now are...

1. If they are made from the same material as ARP studs... Why are they over 200 dollars more?

2. Why are they able to be reused and arps supposedly arent?

3. Why was there dicussion that you should only use elites lube on elites studs and now arps lube.... if they are the same material?

If someone gets a hold of ARP ill be interested to see their explanation as to why directions say to torque them to 325 ftlbs as compared to elites studs that are over 100ftlbs less

1. We are charged more for our studs than ARP's are available for. Consequently, we have to charge more for ours. I can say that ARP probably sells more studs than we do. As everyone knows, higher volume means lower prices. Just because the material is the same doesnt mean that the build process is the same. We had to pay for the tooling and design of these, so as a business we needed to be profitable on the products we sell.

2. Again, I can only speak for ours, but with our torque specs, the bolt stays within its desired yield, and does not stretch.

3. Back to the design and spec of the stud: when these were designed, they were built with a certain process in mind.

oneturboforme said:
Jd as far as arp 625s for i truck I believe not... I can't find them for any powerjoke actually but they have them for the fummins and the dirtymax.... Maybe they just don't see a big enough buyer margine

Since we came so quickly to the market with ours, and the small need for the 625s, compounded with the price, they may not have seen enough profit to go ahead with it.