injector builders

[TooMuch03]

personally I don't care by who or how many times a set is flowed but just for arguments sake, why does the mfg not satisfy your QA/QC concerns? if anything, when a mfg claims that their product has been evaluated and tested under their quality control measures, they would have even more vested interest in making sure the product they are selling performs as advertised. otherwise confidence in their product would evaporate. in my industry, manufacturers backing their product with strict quality control measures and internal certifications demands a premium. in fact, the internal testing that goes into our products makes up a MASSIVE portion of our COGS (cost of goods sold) but our customers recognize the value and $$ behind our QC process and that's one reason they pay more for it.

You bring up a valid point. And, if I hadn't had the experinces I have in the pst, I would very inclined to agree with you completely. In my industry, QC and QA testing are different. QC testing is performed by the manufacturer or supplier, and it is done on a large scale. QA or QV as we call it (quality Verification) is done by the client or customer, whom I represent. The testing is done on a smaller scale to ensure the product being purchased is infact what it is supposed to be. As long as the product passes visual inspection, the smaller scale QA testing is considered representative. The QC testing protects the manufacturer and shows that there product is acceptable. The QA testing protects the customer and keeps the supplier honest by verifying the results. If the customer does no testing, what is there to verify the that the QC results are accurate?

To apply this to injectors: You are absolutely correct, if the products don't perform as advertised, then confidence will evaporate. The question is, how can the customer know that the product is performing as advertised. Just based on whether or not it runs good? That is certainly part of it. However, just because the truck runs fine doesn't mean the injectors flow as advertised, again speaking from personal experience. This is where independent testing is useful.

 

[04cr450]

you are joking right.

i know what it takes and its not a drill bit.

No im not joking at all... If you have a machine shop with the right equipment its very cost effective. Don't beat me up here. You can make them for roughly $25 a nozzle... hell you can buy nozzles from poltron for $35... Anyways just a thought

 

[04cr450]

You came here pushing a non sponsor product and wouldn't take the responses given to you by many with experience. You were fishing and you came up empty. Everybody tried to explain what we could. Maybe you should go back and re-read what was written to you? And I can't speak for GoGo but my direct drive is not what you described.



Well, maybe you should re-read your post, my response, and the next 4-5 responses made by members to your post, to see where we are coming from. Nobody is trying to twist anything. In fact I even mentioned that I have you the benefit of the doubt. A couple of you seem to be hell bent on cutting people down who don't agree with your poor man's advocate stance. It doesn't come across like you are welcoming discussion but more like you think people are stupid for "nut swinging" and expecting flow sheets from their builder of choice.

.

Me pushing a company!!?? wow you misinterpret a lot, and I mean a lot do you speak English??? This thread is all for information and who is the best in the injector business etc etc.... Holy cow you are full of drama man... I am not trying to push squat!! I didn't even mention your solenoid but Ill bet it is a EPC(as most of the modified dd's are)... If not then what is it? Do u make them?

 

[BlueWaffle]

The question is, how can the customer know that the product is performing as advertised. Just based on whether or not it runs good? That is certainly part of it. However, just because the truck runs fine doesn't mean the injectors flow as advertised, again speaking from personal experience. This is where independent testing is useful.

that's the beauty of the free market. get a few sets out there that don't perform as advertised and business will suffer and migrate towards the companies that flow test and have very few failures.

 

[TooMuch03]

There's a search function in the tool bar. It will answer every question you just posed. Give it a shot

Post the before and after flow sheets and where you bought the set from that was "flowed" before you got them, how much they were off and who fixed it it for you. We will start there. Thanks

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Use the search function, in the tool bar...

See I can do it too. You could have just read back in the thread, most of the information was already posted. I am not going to waste my time searching for two and a half year old flow sheets to prove my point to an internet badazz.

My questions were rhetorical, by definition, do not need answering. I will add rhetorical questions to the list of literary devices I must refrain from using when trying to communicate with you.

Just to humor you. I wouldn't want you to hurt yourself trying to read more than necessary. The injectors were originally from Industrial Injection, who at the time was recieving great reviews, is a large nationally recognized shop with their own in house flow bench. They were supposed to be 190/75s built from alliant power remans and the flow sheets showed that the injectors flowed 190cc on average. After less than 1 year spool valves began failing. Becasue II did not honor the warranty, I took the injectors to Sheldon at Renegade diesel, saw his shop first hand. He had the injectors flowed (doesn't have his own in house flow bench, so had to send them out) They flowed about 155. The ones that worked anyways did. He took them apart and verified the injectors were uncut and not shimmed. Only spill ports were plugged.

You're right, I just made all this up... (this is sarcasm, incase you aren't able to comprehend that)

 

[04cr450]

Guys I am not trying to push a specific injector company..... If I was then why am I going to stick with someone to build my injectors(my pops) that has no impact on the performance injector world/business......... Im just stating the facts with my current injectors and they flowed all correctly, and who out there is doing good work- now if Absolute performance cant understand that english than I don't know what else to say.....:cursing:

 

[bigrpowr]

No im not joking at all... If you have a machine shop with the right equipment its very cost effective. Don't beat me up here. You can make them for roughly $25 a nozzle... hell you can buy nozzles from poltron for $35... Anyways just a thought

That's not the way nozzles are built. From what I understand , at least in the diesel industry , its either EDM or EH processes. So unless you have the equipment and the media for said job , you could very easily blow some stuff up. Trying to encourage people to build there own nozzles is probably one of the dumbest things I've ever seen someone say.

 

[04cr450]

That's not the way nozzles are built. From what I understand , at least in the diesel industry , its either EDM or EH processes. So unless you have the equipment and the media for said job , you could very easily blow some stuff up. Trying to encourage people to build there own nozzles is probably one of the dumbest things I've ever seen someone say.

Ahh I see where you got that.. Im not trying to get people to build there own injectors I promise ya.. I just figured RCD has a shop with the needed equipment to make them that's all- wasn't put out so joe shmoe could make them. I know diesel engine shops are not all the same but wouldn't hurt to ask jared the idea ya know.. Ive only seen nozzles made from EDM processes.

 

[Powerstroked162]

No im not joking at all... If you have a machine shop with the right equipment its very cost effective. Don't beat me up here. You can make them for roughly $25 a nozzle... hell you can buy nozzles from poltron for $35... Anyways just a thought

Dude.... Why are you getting pissed that people don't take you serious about injectors when you say stuff like this?? Goes right back to what I said earlier, your posts are what give the impression you don't know what you're talking about. Nothing else


Unreal.

 

[windrunner408]

personally I don't care by who or how many times a set is flowed but just for arguments sake, why does the mfg not satisfy your QA/QC concerns? if anything, when a mfg claims that their product has been evaluated and tested under their quality control measures, they would have even more vested interest in making sure the product they are selling performs as advertised. otherwise confidence in their product would evaporate. in my industry, manufacturers backing their product with strict quality control measures and internal certifications demands a premium. in fact, the internal testing that goes into our products makes up a MASSIVE portion of our COGS (cost of goods sold) but our customers recognize the value and $$ behind our QC process and that's one reason they pay more for it.

Lance, I see where you're coming from man. It makes sense. I guess at the end of the day (for me), I go a little over board on my "6.0 performance journey". I like to understand why/how things operate so I can gauge my expectations accordingly and (more importantly) should I have a problem (which is a VERY high possibility) I know where to look. And with the lack of information out there combined with the myriad of problems when operating in the performance realm, I'm not a guy that is going to just take "some mfg's word" that their product will do what they say it will do. This is the "aftermarket/performance world" man. Things more often than not, don't go the way you planned/hope they would so in the end the one who is ultimately responsible for getting your truck to the point you want it to be at is you (regardless of who you pay). This is why most of the stuff on my truck has been built/put together by me. I guess if you want to call me a "backyardigan" you can, but I at least know what I have in my truck. I know roughly what to expect from it in terms of performance. And if I have a problem with it, I know who to blame and where to look. And this doesn't mean that wouldn't buy products from the big named MFGs. It just means, that I'm going to tinker first so I can know what's going on. Then when I reach a point that is beyond my level of skill to build myself, I will know where I want to turn to because I will be able to talk intelligently with the mfg of said product and know whether they are blowing smoke up my skirt or not. Hope this makes sense man.

I do agree with you man that higher quality control will make a better end product regardless of application.

that's the beauty of the free market. get a few sets out there that don't perform as advertised and business will suffer and migrate towards the companies that flow test and have very few failures.

This is true.

 

[Powerstroked162]

Use the search function, in the tool bar...

See I can do it too. You could have just read back in the thread, most of the information was already posted. I am not going to waste my time searching for two and a half year old flow sheets to prove my point to an internet badazz.

My questions were rhetorical, by definition, do not need answering. I will add rhetorical questions to the list of literary devices I must refrain from using when trying to communicate with you.

Just to humor you. I wouldn't want you to hurt yourself trying to read more than necessary. The injectors were originally from Industrial Injection, who at the time was recieving great reviews, is a large nationally recognized shop with their own in house flow bench. They were supposed to be 190/75s built from alliant power remans and the flow sheets showed that the injectors flowed 190cc on average. After less than 1 year spool valves began failing. Becasue II did not honor the warranty, I took the injectors to Sheldon at Renegade diesel, saw his shop first hand. He had the injectors flowed (doesn't have his own in house flow bench, so had to send them out) They flowed about 155. The ones that worked anyways did. He took them apart and verified the injectors were uncut and not shimmed. Only spill ports were plugged.

You're right, I just made all this up... (this is sarcasm, incase you aren't able to comprehend that)

Lol industrial is FAR from reputable. So your point is completely invalid. All your ranting and raving was for nothing.

.

 

[04cr450]

Dude.... Why are you getting pissed that people don't take you serious about injectors when you say stuff like this?? Goes right back to what I said earlier, your posts are what give the impression you don't know what you're talking about. Nothing else


Unreal.

Whats unreal is you say statements above.. You have no experience being in a diesel engine building machine shop. Sorry I take offense to that- not like you care of should care.. Just saying.

 

[04cr450]

Dude.... Why are you getting pissed that people don't take you serious about injectors when you say stuff like this?? Goes right back to what I said earlier, your posts are what give the impression you don't know what you're talking about. Nothing else


Unreal.

Annnnnd once again I am not pissed at all.. No where near it. Just trying to be more clear for you internet big guys to understand what this thread is about.

 

[bigrpowr]

Ahh I see where you got that.. Im not trying to get people to build there own injectors I promise ya.. I just figured RCD has a shop with the needed equipment to make them that's all- wasn't put out so joe shmoe could make them. I know diesel engine shops are not all the same but wouldn't hurt to ask jared the idea ya know.. Ive only seen nozzles made from EDM processes.

hopefully jared gets with you so you can point him in the right direction!

 

[04cr450]

sure can

 

[Powerstroked162]

Whats unreal is you say statements above.. You have no experience being in a diesel engine building machine shop. Sorry I take offense to that- not like you care of should care.. Just saying.

Lol yeah, I haven't done anything with diesels. One day maybe I can make my own nozzles in my garage and be somebody!!

.

 

[04cr450]

yeah weeeelll your ugly too!!!ointlaugh:

 

[TooMuch03]

Lol industrial is FAR from reputable. So your point is completely invalid. All your ranting and raving was for nothing.

.

Wrong again.

The fact that I recieved a flow sheet and that the injectors didn't actually flow what the sheet said remains. Therefore, my point that just because you recieve a flow sheet does not guarantee that it is accurate also remains valid. I get the feeling this whole time you had no idea what I was actually saying. It's like you saw the word nutswinging and subsequently shut your brain off. Since you have failed to provide any information to show that any flow sheets from any manufacturer are in fact accurate, you have done nothing but validate my point further. So, I say again, tell me about all the independent flow testing you have done.

 

[Powerstroked162]

Wrong again.

The fact that I recieved a flow sheet and that the injectors didn't actually flow what the sheet said remains. Therefore, my point that just because you recieve a flow sheet does not guarantee that it is accurate also remains valid. I get the feeling this whole time you had no idea what I was actually saying. It's like you saw the word nutswinging and subsequently shut your brain off. Since you have failed to provide any information to show that any flow sheets from any manufacturer are in fact accurate, you have done nothing but validate my point further. So, I say again, tell me about all the independent flow testing you have done.

I've been around since about 2004-ish. I've worked with people as a customer, a friend, part of a race team, as a spectator and as a business... Industrial has NEVER had a good track record. 238 hybrids and p-pumps were the first to bring quality issues to light. I've lost count of the horror stories. Having been around for awhile, I've made great connections with some of, IMO, the best in the business when it comes to injectors. Hell, a close friend of mine has pioneered more HEUI performance as just a hobbyist than most of the people building injectors full time. I trust what we have discussed over the course of the last 9 years to be 100% accurate and never lacking in detail. Through their experiences and testing I have had the privilege to be a part of it. I've learned tons and I'm thankful for every opportunity I have had to do so. Do I flow injectors? Nope. Neither do you. Should I flow injectors since I'm not an injector builder? Nope. Should I have to flow injectors to know a good company from a bad company based off facts and experiences? Nope. Have you based your entire arguments off of a poor personal choice in choosing a injector builder? Yup. Could everything you have been crying about been avoided with some research? Meh, depends. You don't seem very receptive to much other than price and doing the opposite of common, so it's hard to say. In the end, I feel bad for you that you can't accept people who make purchases using facts rather than emotions or opinions. It certainly doesn't help you to attack those people for being consciences in their choices by calling them nut swingers. Either way, we will just have to agree to disagree on injector quality control, whose got their A game going on and who doesn't, and who people should send their money to and who shouldn't. I'm fairly confident most people here would agree that what people have asked for in a shop is nothing unreasonable. It certainly would save some heartache and frustration I know that


.

 

[Pizza pig]

hopefully jared gets with you so you can point him in the right direction!

LOLLOL