85_305
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I don't understand why they won't tune over 200% nozzles.. It it lack of real world experience with those?
injector capability, tuning stand point
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I don't understand why they won't tune over 200% nozzles.. It it lack of real world experience with those?
Nobody Special
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No.
It's that every single truck out there is going to run differently with injectors that "big". At that point, there are (or should be) so many modifications to the truck that will make it run so much differently to the next that any "tuner" with any sense will not want to waste time remotely tuning a truck that is going to be a huge finicky bitch. Additionally, there are fewer and fewer people who are willing to put up with the nuances of "almost just right" concerning tuning; without the truck being right there (tuned on the spot), there is very little chance of making it as perfect as it can be without a dozen attempts at sending tuning back and forth.
With the myriad of aftermarket injectors available and the modifications done to them, there isn't a "baseline" tune that will work well for any more than the truck that was initially tuned. Small variances in the injector build as well as (and most importantly) nozzle orifice imperfections become VERY important when trying to get a decent idle and retain some drivability.
The biggest problem is that people who want to install these ridiculous injectors are also ones that live no less than fifty-two light years away from anybody capable of live tuning. They want to use the truck on the street and have a good idle with no jerkiness while cruising the mall parking lot looking for jail bait. I think it's possible for any custom tuning outfit to throw a set of tunes on your 400%-nozzled injectors of choice and make it run. Math is your friend. However, making it docile enough to drive on the street is the challenge that takes a lot of finesse and I don't think it's the chosen tuning company's responsibility to foot the bill for the time/effort/shipping/etc. when a person wants to invest a ton of money in a set of injectors but doesn't want to invest a bit more for live tuning them (and subsequently badmouth the tuning company for not getting the tuning right on the first couple of tries).
That's my take on the subject. Not that it matters, but it's my perspective.
It's that every single truck out there is going to run differently with injectors that "big". At that point, there are (or should be) so many modifications to the truck that will make it run so much differently to the next that any "tuner" with any sense will not want to waste time remotely tuning a truck that is going to be a huge finicky bitch. Additionally, there are fewer and fewer people who are willing to put up with the nuances of "almost just right" concerning tuning; without the truck being right there (tuned on the spot), there is very little chance of making it as perfect as it can be without a dozen attempts at sending tuning back and forth.
With the myriad of aftermarket injectors available and the modifications done to them, there isn't a "baseline" tune that will work well for any more than the truck that was initially tuned. Small variances in the injector build as well as (and most importantly) nozzle orifice imperfections become VERY important when trying to get a decent idle and retain some drivability.
The biggest problem is that people who want to install these ridiculous injectors are also ones that live no less than fifty-two light years away from anybody capable of live tuning. They want to use the truck on the street and have a good idle with no jerkiness while cruising the mall parking lot looking for jail bait. I think it's possible for any custom tuning outfit to throw a set of tunes on your 400%-nozzled injectors of choice and make it run. Math is your friend. However, making it docile enough to drive on the street is the challenge that takes a lot of finesse and I don't think it's the chosen tuning company's responsibility to foot the bill for the time/effort/shipping/etc. when a person wants to invest a ton of money in a set of injectors but doesn't want to invest a bit more for live tuning them (and subsequently badmouth the tuning company for not getting the tuning right on the first couple of tries).
That's my take on the subject. Not that it matters, but it's my perspective.
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85_305
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Ohhh so tuners will live-tune these fat-injectored trucks but not mail-order them. Your explanation on that makes sense.
So you can tell if there are deficiencies, even though minute', in a nozzle when tuning it?? What tells you the tuner that something about your chosen nozzles/injectors are grimey?
So you can tell if there are deficiencies, even though minute', in a nozzle when tuning it?? What tells you the tuner that something about your chosen nozzles/injectors are grimey?
under pressure
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Live tuning is the way to go no matter the injector.
Well, yes. Ive had to try different tunes on my truck.when it was.stock so that argument is fairly relevant but not so much that a combination of parts cant.be made to work together. Bill@phpphp is an excellent tuner and I have ZERO doubt he can tune a 400% nozzle. Ive only ran two tuners stuff around here and php is the only one id.comment on cuz Ive got nothing constructive.to.say about the other. Id like to have Matt tune my next build but after what was done with Jason(lowdown89) truck I may stay with php and a wwg2 on my 38r.
Idk. I think.depending on initial.correspondence you may or may not.get the appointment.
85_305
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That makes sense
Lowdown89
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By the way with the latest of revision the WWG2 bill has my truck making 603hp so that was like a 48hp jump just from swapping out the wheel
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under pressure
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600+ on a the ol reliable 38R..... Nice
Charles
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Sounds like nobody special would be happiest if everyone would just drive around on stock AD's and 80e never wanting anything more perfect than that, lol.
If 200% and bigger nozzles are "ridiculous" then the last decade passed you by. What's ridiculous is people still running tiny ass nozzles and pushing them to the brink because of precisely the sort of mindset you showed.
A 400% nozzle will run acceptably from one truck to another. You just can't tune like an idiot and expect the nozzle to hide it.
On edit:
Maybe someone like me Dave, Mike or Curtis should just flood the market with free programs for 200, 300 and 400% nozzles just to get the masses out of the dark ages instantly. Just have them all piled up on a public access file share server. Everybody could just give and take programs as they saw fit. Revisions could be posted right back up. Problem solved. For free. Peer to peer tuning.
If 200% and bigger nozzles are "ridiculous" then the last decade passed you by. What's ridiculous is people still running tiny ass nozzles and pushing them to the brink because of precisely the sort of mindset you showed.
A 400% nozzle will run acceptably from one truck to another. You just can't tune like an idiot and expect the nozzle to hide it.
On edit:
Maybe someone like me Dave, Mike or Curtis should just flood the market with free programs for 200, 300 and 400% nozzles just to get the masses out of the dark ages instantly. Just have them all piled up on a public access file share server. Everybody could just give and take programs as they saw fit. Revisions could be posted right back up. Problem solved. For free. Peer to peer tuning.
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under pressure
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400s aren't for everyone. Or maybe that should be the only injector in the aftermarket and the consumer could choose what power level he needed to roll with based on set up. Then maybe they will not cost as much as they do either. (I can day dream cant I )
Charles
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Gootee
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So then if I'm wanting to make 4-430hp clean a 200/200 hybrid would be a good choice? Mileage, dependable & drivability shouldn't be a issue with turbo such as an s366 or h2e?
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It wouldnt need to be a hybrid, but that would be a plus if it were.
I think a 200/200 would be a great injector to do a little bit of everythng based on what ive read. Golfer is/was running a set.
under pressure
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These have all shown to make 400+ hp. Just depends on how you want it to run and what you will spend to do it. Be it mileage, low egts, top end power.
160/100
175/30
175/100
180/100
200/200
160/100
175/30
175/100
180/100
200/200
Nobody Special
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Thanks for putting words in my mouth, since nothing you have assumed about my comments ever crossed my mind.
I was happy with the hybrid set I ran.
not sure how many 200/200 split shot's are out there?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJd2mBZxwy0
under pressure
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I was referring to a standard single vs. a hybrid. That was a nice curve and good power.
Charles
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It must have crossed your mind at least long enough to write it.
You need me to send you some programs? Which of these "ridiculous" nozzles scares you the most? I'm sure myself and a handful of other hobbyist each have dozens of programs that would calm your anxiety about a nozzle working the same way in more than one truck, lol.
On edit:
I went and read it again. Maybe the phrases "huge finiky bitch" referring to the idea of a competitively nozzled injector behaving, or "ridiculous injectors" referring to those discussed in this thread or "cruising for jailbait" in reference to the people running them will ring some bells.
You obviously have had or at least once had a bad experience with making someone happy with a decent nozzle. Whether it was you directly, or someone you know/knew.
The giving up is what separates the ones with properly running trucks from the ones running too small a nozzle because they are deathly afraid of tuning a decent nozzle.
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neverkickn
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I am sure it is completely coincidental, but Nobody Special has a unique, yet familiar writing style.
