Single shot injection?

[powerstroked08]

You will see that in this tune I did it looks like a doughnut hole in the middle where i turned off the pilot. This is where my truck runs at on the highway. At 70mph on flat ground i was seeing 130 ft/lbs and up to almost 300ft/lbs going up hill on cruise control I also allowed my self several hundred rpms of leeway just incase. Thats why it looks weird.

 

[Stroked777]

What would the timing tables look like ?

 

[Stroked777]

You will see that in this tune I did it looks like a doughnut hole in the middle where i turned off the pilot. This is where my truck runs at on the highway. At 70mph on flat ground i was seeing 130 ft/lbs and up to almost 300ft/lbs going up hill on cruise control I also allowed my self several hundred rpms of leeway just incase. Thats why it looks weird.

alrightly i jut got mine to look the same way, im tempted to try the tune as is but i dont know what temps and stuff or what table to touch for timing

 

[Stroked777]

ok i think i figured it out, all i did was take 500-725 rpm range and put the timing to 0, im gunna go load it in the truck and give it a test drive with all pilot injection turned off,and i also gave it a nice rumble at idle by messing with the turbo vane control:rockon:
ill let you all know how it work outs, migth advance it more and smooth out the timing after idle to make it a smooth transition

 

[Meniacal_Mark]

Vids!!

 

[MrMike2010]

I made a tune this evening that seemed to work well. Shut off the pre injection tables and tinkered around with the timing. At idle you can't tell whether its a 6leaker or a 6.4. They sound identical. Seems to run fairly well. Throttle response is down a little but I think with more timing changes that will be fixed. This was only a test run and I'm still unsure of how safe this tune really is. Really wish one of the big tuners would shed some light or even make a tune.

 

[Meniacal_Mark]

Maybe Matt will chime in with more details

 

[MrMike2010]

Update. Started my truck this morning after sitting all night. It's been in the high 70's at night here. Sounded like one of those 6.0 cold starts you see on YouTube. Started right up but it rattled and smoked pretty bad. Def need a lot more timing adjustments and I just don't feel comfortable with toying with them on my own.

 

[powerstroked08]

Maybe enable pilot 2 only up to like 600-700 rpms just to help it start?

 

[Stroked777]

i put my timing at 0* from 500-725 and it started fine

 

[MrMike2010]

I did set mine at 0 at idle and it was pretty rough. Warmed up she idle perfect and would start perfect as well. Just cold starts sucked

 

[SLO DZL]

Ya every so often mine was still starting rough as well but ive since added most all the pre injection back....honestly, for my personal preference, the sound doesn't really do anything for me plus I never saw any sort of benefit from removing it. So now im still adjusting the fueling map for the pre injections, taking some out in places and adding in others to try see if it really mkes a noticable difference or not.

 

[CATDiezel]

I just started to make a tune with this type of injection setup. I was hoping it would free up some fuel to maybe run bigger injectors. Its my understandong that the pilot injection is mainly for emissions and sound reduction.

multiple injection events are much more efficient than a single shot injection.

More horsepower can be derived from a common rail multiple injection verse a single injection event.

This has been proven by engineers in lab coats! LOL

As already mentioned cylinder pressure spikes are more prominent with a single shot vs a multi-shot.

A cleaner burn is also achieved by "preheating" the cylinder with the pre-injection to main injection.

ON another note.--- Some of the injection points can be eliminated.

Good luck finding the proper timing curve to keep cylinder pressures in check without doing pressure transducer module testing to "SEE" where you are in relation to TDC/Pressure.

Too much pressure can have an adverse affect on the bottom line when it comes to peak performance.

Most tuners take a shot in the dark and use the SOP method.

 

[powerstroked08]

Oh yeah i completely understand that the multiple event injection is more efficient. The main reason for me playing with this setup is to see if by eliminating/lowering some of the pilot injections I may be able to keep enough fuel in the rails to add larger injectors. And also it just seems kinda counter productive to have an injection at 56* btdc. Maybe not but that just seems like thats awefully soon to be injecting. But I'm not an expert by any means.

 

[Powerstroke Man 6.4]

I'm sorry I know this thread is old but does anybody have a update on this subject? I was searching around for the last 2 years on how to turn off the Pilot injection of a 6.4. Then I found this current thread about this subject. I want to hear some vids with it off.

 

[3brorce]

Post #23 bud.

 

[KEM Performance]

multiple injection events are much more efficient than a single shot injection.

More horsepower can be derived from a common rail multiple injection verse a single injection event.

This has been proven by engineers in lab coats! LOL

Been there done that! Except I did not wear a lab coat!

As already mentioned cylinder pressure spikes are more prominent with a single shot vs a multi-shot.

A cleaner burn is also achieved by "preheating" the cylinder with the pre-injection to main injection.

ON another note.--- Some of the injection points can be eliminated.

Good luck finding the proper timing curve to keep cylinder pressures in check without doing pressure transducer module testing to "SEE" where you are in relation to TDC/Pressure.

Too much pressure can have an adverse affect on the bottom line when it comes to peak performance.

Most tuners take a shot in the dark and use the SOP method.

How true!

 

[CATDiezel]

I love this idea and am interested in the outcome for my dad's truck. He has been missing the clatter of his 6.0 lol. I don't see how cylinder pressures would be much of an issue since the 6.0 and 7.3 ran fine (ish) without it... And also someone said the pilot injection shuts off at a certain rpm so it shouldn't affect WOT cylinder pressure should it?

My question is, is this the kind of thing that can be switched on-the fly? It would be awesome to be able to turn it off for the drive through and what not.

Sent from a Cummins plant, driving a TDI, wishing it was a Powerstroke

Split shot injection on a 7.3L or 6.0L is and was a completely different animal.

Your talking about a sluggish responding heui injection event that was less than stellar for reactivity and precision. Could it be made to work... YES... But with very precise tuning and lots of cylinder pressure testing.

Multi-shot injection has proven to make a better cleaner burn...

Your looking more along the lines of PREHEATING the cylinder, which is a good thing for optimal burn rate and efficiency.

So saying "I have lowered my EGT's" does not necessarily mean anything has been accomplished in the name of efficiency.

In short... your better off KEEPING your multi-shot injection on a 6.4L and 6.7L and a 6.7L common rail cummins and duramax as well.. I tested these on a small mans scale sometime back with both the LBZ duramax and the 6.7L cummins. NO GOOD....

To sum this up:
There is a fair amount of wasted fuel with a single shot event were you can stage the injection events and use the "same" amount of fuel but with more efficiency. Some of the benefits are a quieter running engine, however that was not the original goal... just a nice byproduct of the multi-shot.... plus it WAS for emissions but did not threaten a negative affect on HP or efficiency.

EDIT:
On a funnier note,,,,, I just realized I have already responded to this thread once or twice before.... WOOPS... Anyways.... LOL

 

[Demonic Diesel Performanc]

Pre injection is a plus in a common rail system at low rpms, it can be turned off with great success after about 2000 rpms...post can be eliminated all together with out adverse effects "minus emission out put"
The presssure spike can be roughly formulated with timing, fuel quantity, cylinder temps, ect...
The pressure really dosent mean much after 2000 rpms... once you get the rotating assembly moving at those speeds it can handle a lot! Now big pressure spikes in the 1500 rpm range can easily bend or break a rod...

 

[Stroked777]

Has any one completely eliminated pre injection after 2000 Rpms? Figure I would bump this thread to see if there is any new info or if anyone tried anything yet