B Codes, Not a Noob post

[96F350KID]

Yea hybrid sorry. Under wide open throttle your settings should be about the same. injection timing, pulse, and icp. Other then that there is nothing magic about tuning. Everything else is mechanical. Considering the timing is dynamic and not static like a injection pump the change should just be based on the injector swap.

 

[DocBar]

That's correct I'm not posting mine yet. Too many nit pickers when it comes to injectors. Everyone is an expert on the subject because they read all about them. I was really looking for people who have them we can compare with each other. That's what these boards were for, to provide info for one another. I'm not posting mine because someone with hybrids will jump in a rave they make that with hybrids and from there the post will trickle into worthless crap. Ether no one has any current with B codes or they've been like me and just kept their www. mouth shut. Biggest issue I've had with my OBS is removing the speed limiter at 116mph in the 1/4. I was looking for HP #s to compare that with my track time to see where i need to improve vs the dyno sheet to see if they're close. Track vs dyno right now i have almost 90hp spread between the two with different dynos.

I'm not going to read all 7 pages of this. Hybrids are good. I know a few builders who absolutely swear by B codes. Price difference and big oil is why most of choose hybrids. Dyno #'s are very inaccurate. They are a useful tool for tuning, but track times tell the tale.

You're putting out some good power if you're hitting 116mph in the quarter mile. My truck has a best of 104 at 8496 lbs.

 

[TyCorr]

I'm not going to read all 7 pages of this. Hybrids are good. I know a few builders who absolutely swear by B codes. Price difference and big oil is why most of choose hybrids. Dyno #'s are very inaccurate. They are a useful tool for tuning, but track times tell the tale.

You're putting out some good power if you're hitting 116mph in the quarter mile. My truck has a best of 104 at 8496 lbs.

I know of 2 builders who love them but the sets of their hybrids I bought werent worth a squirt of ***kin coon piss.

Ive got Tim@pis 250/200s and they are great injectors. Best idle ive ever heard. My previoys set of 250/200s about had me convinced to go back to a dinky ass 180 and a 30 or 80 nozzle. HE told me what i wanted and what i hated werent how his injectors work.

I know he builds b codes also. Im not a fan of oil systems and the way my shtibox is tuned I could run on a 17 unaffected and in my softer tunes a 15° would hold icp.

 

[96F350KID]

Don't care about idle. These idle rough but make stupid HP so don't care. Out to race no daily.

 

[TyCorr]

Its not important to everybody but in my experience inability to hammer out a true idle has been indicative of poorly built pieces. Just my experience. The two sets in recalling that just never would idle well also wound up being poorly built and prematurely had to be replaced. It matters to some, and not to others. Where Im at in life i only want stuff that works good in what its designed for as I don't like the compromises. Thats just the color of exoerience that ive had.

 

[sootie]

And like Charles says...he can't understand people not wanting to figure out idle issues because if you can get them to idle right, the whole experience thru the rpm band is much better!

 

[96F350KID]

I have customers with injectors from every one. Some sets idle great but suck at 2k. Some break up at 1800 and idle great. If they all flow even on a bench and the ECU only looks at cylinder 1&8 for timing on these old things it's not going to effect performance like most people think. Most of the ones out there that idle great don't flow anything past 2600rpm. Here locally we have a fuel shop that doesn't do performance injectors but rather does stock rebuilds. When I have issues with these things I take it to them to verify on the bench. Tell them what duration and rpm to run them at. It's not rocket science but since these things are so stupid and bulky to get any kind of response from compared to a common rail unit you can only mod them so far before you effect idle performance. Like a gas engine with a big cam. Other than poppet issues which are like a noticeable miss, a rough or rumble idle is the amount of fuel you are moving per injector cycle. I've never seen a high flow injector idle smooth using a 200%+ nozzle other than on an injector that didn't move a large volume of fuel. My 400/300s idle rough but don't haze as bad as some 200% nozzles and above 1200rpm they run smoother and smoother until they fall off. The idle argument has been going on for forever but no one has any proof or does any testing other then bitching about it. If people thought the same thing about big lift cams no one would ever have explored that area. Point of my long story is huge fueling injectors for large hp numbers will never run like a stock truck.

 

[Tim @ P.I.S.]

I find many of these comments humerous.

The key to good idle in these injectors is............

Everyone get ready, don't use an injector builder that fills your oil side full of shims to gain back proper armature clearance.

It's been confirmed time and time and time and, well you get the idea.

And I personally have seen 400% nozzles fool spectators at a dyno event thinking the guy had a stock AD truck because it sounded and idled like a stock truck.

But what do I know. Carry on.

 

[superpsd]

My home built B codes with 200% nozzles and welded barrels idle like a factory truck without a chip and they were built with worn cores so bad that a couple had .001'' of armature clearance which caused cold misfiring. A little work with a surface grinder and they start cold and smooth everyday. They also have never been on a test bench.

 

[96F350KID]

Tim's not wrong by any means but that's not all of it. 400% nozzles smell SOO bad on a truck. So do 200% overs. Max fuel and Max IP is what I'm looking for. My B codes idle rough but it's not a shimmed poppet or worn poppet issue, it's a loading up on fuel idle lol

 

[TyCorr]

I find many of these comments humerous.

The key to good idle in these injectors is............

Everyone get ready, don't use an injector builder that fills your oil side full of shims to gain back proper armature clearance.

It's been confirmed time and time and time and, well you get the idea.

And I personally have seen 400% nozzles fool spectators at a dyno event thinking the guy had a stock AD truck because it sounded and idled like a stock truck.

But what do I know. Carry on.

Hey Tim, since mine idle so well that the truck sounds mechanical, does that mean they only are fueling to about 2600 rpm?

 

[superpsd]

One of the things I have read about the B code vs Hybrid debate is that B codes can be know to be capable of fueling harder at lower ICP and of course has the 6:1 ratio along with the VOP of 3600 equall a daily driver friendly injector with correct supporting mods. However due to the larger Intensifier piston the B code starts falling off past 3K rpms as it can't get oil in fast enough where as a hybrid uses less oil to push the same 7.1mm plunger so fill time is quicker which equates to a injector that can keep fueling harder at higher engine speeds with a narrow injection window. Some of the B codes I have noticed have the extra poppet seat feed holes but no ones has ever said if any advantage has been found with the extra feed holes. I would assume so as if there was no performance gain builders like hypermax would not waste their time.

 

[TARM]

Consider what type of injectors all the top HP 7.3 were running.

400% hybrids.

 

[TyCorr]

Consider what type of injectors all the top HP 7.3 were running.

400% hybrids.

They probably had bw sxe turbos too. Garretts aren't any good LOL

 

[hucorey]

They probably had bw sxe turbos too. Garretts aren't any good LOL

Lol

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

[TARM]

I know, its hard to watch a new gen of 7.3 perf guys trudging thru all the same issues the guys that have been around of years have all gone thru and thru testings etc found the answers..

All I can say is the archives on here and PSN are your friend. Pay attention to the guys making the most power as well as the members from the top shops in those threads. Jason/HotRodTractor , Nate UDP, Dave /Golfer@ Swamps, Charles, Matt Mike/Blowby, Brian/PowerSmoker, gosh I am missing many, Zane and crew at old WOP, but its easy after some reading to know the guys that are heavy into actually testing and working mechanics figuring out the power combos etc. IT woudl be scary to see to total combined hours all the flow benches at these shops have on them from 7.3 testing

That is the benefit to reading the history; it will hopefully prevent you from redoing it all over again.

 

[96F350KID]

Guys still rant and rave about Zane's truck running sub 10s and that was B codes. Other guys moved on to other platforms. Hell this forum is only a few years old. I've been around long enough to see injector builders brag about their injectors are superior while they do the same mods as everyone else. The highest HP 7.3 also don't usually hang out on the forums. They're too busy trying to do something rather then hear people tell them it can't be done.

 

[TARM]

10s means nothings as power is just one factor dropping wieght makes a big dif. What was the eight of the truck and then its top speed at least that give s idea of HP. I also specifically mentioned PSN for that very reason. Most major stuff was already figured out before PSN was sold and PSA was created.

You are right though the highest HP trucks were likley pullers and as has been well proven they do not dyno well at all. But its all speculation which is of no real use. You have to use what you have in terms of verifiable info.

You can only go off the facts you have and if the mechanics/science makes sense.........

To know what injectors can move the most fuel is easy. A flow bench gives the answers.

Give them the same size injectors the same PW and ICP and see which one fills the beaker the most. It gives you most flow more injection pressure and atomization.

Now if a person used a B code body and had the abilty or means to have internal parts manf as those super high tolerances.........But now where back into HRT territory.

 

[96F350KID]

Hybrids are B code fuel sides with A code oil tops. Literally the only difference is the intensifier piston size. My argument over the moving fuel aspect is the ratio of pressure is dropped with hybrids. But if more fuel with lower injection pressure made more power then the principal operation of a diesel engine is wrong and common rail and mechanical injected engines on other platforms wouldn't be effected as much.

 

[superpsd]

One other difference out of the box from an A code to a B code is the nozzle springs. A code are I think 2750 psi VOP and a B code have springs set at 3600psi VOP. VOP has a huge effect on things like atomization, burn, emissions, noise and power output etc..

Do your 400/300 injectors have oil side modifications such as quad poppet feeds holes or other oil side modifications? It's likely proprietary information and if you cannot divulge that specifications I completely understand.