Controlling back pressure with Elite turbos

mike@haller's

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Sounds logical. Bigger housing and stick with the gate setup I've got, I can def do that.

Completely changing subject but what gates are on Mal's truck? If not precision why the switch? Thanks Mike.

Both gates on mal's trucks are 44 mm water cooled mvr gates from tial. I changed them because he was getting the precisions so hot they were turning gold and burning up the diaphrams. I also found that the tial gates have a diaphram that is twice as thick as the precision gates. I also like how tial does theyre spring packages. They give the end user alot more options on springs so you can dial the gate in more precise.
 

White_monster

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So the tial gates are worth it for me to run them? You guys have the time on them and I don't.

Your right Dustin you guys are way up there. I'm at 1300ft so that's a consideration as well. If I do hit the track it'll be mission raceway and it's 60ft below sea level, talk about perfect height.
 

mike@haller's

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So the tial gates are worth it for me to run them? You guys have the time on them and I don't.

Your right Dustin you guys are way up there. I'm at 1300ft so that's a consideration as well. If I do hit the track it'll be mission raceway and it's 60ft below sea level, talk about perfect height.

I personally would run the tials. Mal's truck was burning up a precision gate about every 2500 miles. The tials have been on his truck for 6k miles problem free so far.They are also very close in price to the precisions.
 

mike@haller's

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I'm not saying precision gates are junk. I just think they are put in a very hostile environment that they were never designed for. If they were under the truck out of the heat I think they would last alot longer.
 

White_monster

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I already have the precision gates as they came with my turbo package that's all. Maybe I'll sell them off and buy tials. Are you running water thru the mvrs?
 

White_monster

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Ya I heard about this fitting. Who makes it and where do I get it? I may as well switch the gates for something that is proving to last longer. Are you "T"ing into something or just tapping the egr delete plugs?
 

White_monster

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Hey Mike. Do you have any pictures of fitting that larger exhaust housing onto Mal's truck? Be interesting to see. Also some pics of how you did the piping for the gates if you changed anything from how Elite builds there dual gate kits. Pics might help others better understand what is being discussed and help me make some choices as well.
 

mike@haller's

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Ya I heard about this fitting. Who makes it and where do I get it? I may as well switch the gates for something that is proving to last longer. Are you "T"ing into something or just tapping the egr delete plugs?

I can sell you the fitting. You can tap the egr plates. I used the hose coming off the radiator and returned it into the degas bottle
 

mike@haller's

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Hey Mike. Do you have any pictures of fitting that larger exhaust housing onto Mal's truck? Be interesting to see. Also some pics of how you did the piping for the gates if you changed anything from how Elite builds there dual gate kits. Pics might help others better understand what is being discussed and help me make some choices as well.

I don't have pics of the housing install. I clearanced the manifold and ground down the housing some. But it is still very close. If I were you I would get tadds new intake and have him make it with a little more clearance where it gets close.
For the gate I welded a pipe to the left manifold. Then dump to atmosphere.
uploadfromtaptalk1322977348253.jpg
uploadfromtaptalk1322977512622.jpg
This is another kit I made using the factory egr pipe. Also dumps to atmosphere.
uploadfromtaptalk1322977661020.jpg
uploadfromtaptalk1322977718613.jpg
 

jdgleason

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I like that gate mike. Super easy access to it, and it should run cooler there. I would really like a gate like that plumbed into my dp
 

White_monster

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So Mike with my piping I have a gate off the drivers side up pipe that dumps under the trans into the down pipe. This gate should open first and then set the other gate that dumps from the passenger up pipe to between the turbos should open about 5psi higher, or whatever helps drivability. Would it be possible to open the upper gate earlier to start spooling the big turbo earlier?

Now the next thing I have a question about. What boost controller(s) is everyone using? Just stay with the regulators or is any one using the ams1000 digital boost controller? I was talking to Sebastien at NLR Systems and he has a new controller coming that can adjust the gates to different pressures depending on the setup of the controller. You use a laptop to set it up. Just throwing this info out there as it might allow us to really tweak things for the bottom end and vary it for the top end and in between.
 

mike@haller's

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So Mike with my piping I have a gate off the drivers side up pipe that dumps under the trans into the down pipe. This gate should open first and then set the other gate that dumps from the passenger up pipe to between the turbos should open about 5psi higher, or whatever helps drivability. Would it be possible to open the upper gate earlier to start spooling the big turbo earlier?

Now the next thing I have a question about. What boost controller(s) is everyone using? Just stay with the regulators or is any one using the ams1000 digital boost controller? I was talking to Sebastien at NLR Systems and he has a new controller coming that can adjust the gates to different pressures depending on the setup of the controller. You use a laptop to set it up. Just throwing this info out there as it might allow us to really tweak things for the bottom end and vary it for the top end and in between.

I have used the AMS 500 controllers. And they are very nice. But I personally prefer the S.A.E. method. Simple And Effective. So I use a 200 psi air regulator to control the boost to the gate. The reason being that you can more precisely dial in the boost going to the gate. Spring pressure in the gate is also very important in making it work right.


Every setup is slightly different so where you set your gates will most likely be a little different. First you need all the info you can get. Total boost, boost from the low pressure and back pressure .This is where dustins boost harness to the dashdaq becomes invaluable.


What I would do first is force close the gate going between the turbos by applying full boost to the top port. Then set the gate to atmosphere to open almost immediately to dump all the drive pressure. Then slowly adjust the regulator in till desired boost and back pressure are found. After each run refigure the pr for each turbo. If your high pressure is becoming to high, this is when you will need to start cracking the gate between stages to help slow it down. Of course once you change that gate you need to start over with the gate to atmosphere. Which is why this takes hours to do and requires lots of patience.


In my experience letting the high pressure turbo have as much drive pressure as possible down low, lets the chargers hit very hard and gets the truck moving much faster. I think once I can get someone to make the tune to control the vgt duty cycle the way I want were going to see even better response and driveability from these setups. Hope this helps.
 
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