Controlling back pressure with Elite turbos

White_monster · Dec 4, 2011

Great info Mike. With the new ams2000 we can hold more bp down low and pick the rpm we want lower bp. The 2000 can use a multitude of inputs that can dictate bp. Now how is getting my truck tuned on your dyno and then bring it back to where I live which is 1300ft. Just curious as far as what's gonna need to be done.

BFT · Dec 4, 2011

I'm sure the BP wouldlow about the same down at 1300', right? Probably less smokey at your level then Cheyenne.

My truck on hallers was WAY more smokey then back home. I didn't monitor boost or BP but I'm sure it would t be any different

White_monster · Dec 4, 2011

That's what I'm thinking as well.

Dzchey21 · Dec 4, 2011

White_monster said:
Great info Mike. With the new ams2000 we can hold more bp down low and pick the rpm we want lower bp. The 2000 can use a multitude of inputs that can dictate bp. Now how is getting my truck tuned on your dyno and then bring it back to where I live which is 1300ft. Just curious as far as what's gonna need to be done.

With a full ams digital controller things shouldn't change too much since its basically a small controller.

We also noticed that the ams 500 doesn't seam to react fast enough since it uses soleniods to control the gates it seams like the reactions worked too fast and not enough fine opening of the gates.

My honest opinion is any ams controller is that they need to be run off of a co2 bottle or something with constant 100 psi of air...

That's just my opinion tho

White_monster · Dec 4, 2011

Dzchey21 said:
With a full ams digital controller things shouldn't change too much since its basically a small controller.

We also noticed that the ams 500 doesn't seam to react fast enough since it uses soleniods to control the gates it seams like the reactions worked too fast and not enough fine opening of the gates.

My honest opinion is any ams controller is that they need to be run off of a co2 bottle or something with constant 100 psi of air...

That's just my opinion tho

That's interesting. I'll have to get in touch with NLR Systems and see what he says. But I see what your saying.

jdgleason · Dec 4, 2011

So as for adjusting gates with different tunes: how is that working? Are you even adjusting? Would the AMS 1000 store different gate settings for tunes?

forcefed6.4ford · Dec 4, 2011

I think to maximize the turbo set up. Specific gate setting for specific tunes would almost be a must.

blackmonster · Dec 4, 2011

There is the problem there. The precision gates cannot take the heat. I would open my hood and it would be so hot in there. The gates were not dialed in the way they should have been. Also a lot of the plastic lines coming off the gates melted. I had so many plumbing leaks from high back pressure it was not even funny. The big turbo would over speed and the truck would lock out in OD. Then with the big turbo still dumping lots of fuel into the motor. It was so hard for you to drop the shift. The truck would just shift into OD dump lots of fuel and black the highway out! Then after 30 seconds later it would clean all the fuel out and drop the shift again. Then i would get going again and the truck would build lots of back pressure and go again. But it would do this over and over again. It would just keep falling on its face locked in OD. I had more blown plumbing then one person could stand. I do not know how Aaron had his gates set up. But i do know they were not set up good. Because i had a lot of heat with melted hoses. And a lot of back pressure with blown plumbing. I had all i could take for now. I am not going to point at any one person. But i did spray her one time! So who knows what could of happened then. She only did 1,080HP. But the truck is over #10,000 pounds. So i think that is not to bad. But the set up was not correct. I think??

blackmonster · Dec 4, 2011

When the truck was given back to me from Aaron. It would run good!! But only for a week or two. Then i would get some broken plumbing leak some were. And the waste gate lines were melted and hot all the time. This tells me one things. High back pressure!!! and a lot of it!!! Was Aaron waste gate set up correct?? I do not know? But i do know the truck would never last long at all. And that was on fuel only!!

blackmonster · Dec 4, 2011

There was a lot of pictures of his set up when he did the build. So you can go from there as for were he had his waste gates placed.

Erikclaw · Dec 4, 2011

White_monster said:
Great info Mike. With the new ams2000 we can hold more bp down low and pick the rpm we want lower bp. The 2000 can use a multitude of inputs that can dictate bp. Now how is getting my truck tuned on your dyno and then bring it back to where I live which is 1300ft. Just curious as far as what's gonna need to be done.

The turbos should spool faster at sea level but does that correlate to slightly higher bp because of the speed of the turbos and burning all the fuel? Or am I backwards and at higher elev. since it doesn't burn the fuel as efficiency i.e. smoke, would that mean a higher bp? Or is it all pretty much a wash?

White_monster · Dec 4, 2011

That's what I am hoping to find out Erik. Hallers has the time with these turbos and knows what works.

forcefed6.4ford · Dec 4, 2011

Ok. Now with these electronic controllers ability to adjust bp on the fly, does this not make a vgt set up all but redundant...?

White_monster · Dec 4, 2011

It could I guess. It could also make them even more effective.

blackmonster · Dec 4, 2011

max powers

Shane i hope it all works out for you! Man i spent some big time money on my max power build. I had nothing but problems with back pressure and a lot of down time and money. Was it any one person that i could blame.
No i wanted the HP i spent the money. I paid to have it set up there way and i sprayed her. So it just did not work out for me!!!
But it looks like you are doing your home work and that is one thing i did not do. I just trusted the build. You all know how it turned out for me. Maybe on Dyno day when it was sprayed. Is when the head cracked? And it was just missed after 4 cab off lifts. To fix plumbing leaks and turbo leaks? But with so many problems i had with blown leaks. I was 100% having to much back pressure!! I do not know why? But i just gave up. I wanted a fast truck. But one that would just stay together.
I could never get this to happen. That is why i just said i give up and sold everything! I hope this next build will work for me.
Good luck man!!!!!!!!

redx · Dec 4, 2011

Lol I hope your turbos work better in my truck now Joe, we are covering every possible angle and most likely hallers will do the tune/build.

blackmonster · Dec 4, 2011

maxpower

I hope so to! Just keep doing your homework and find the best way to build her. I think you will be good!!!
Thanks
Joe

White_monster · Dec 4, 2011

Researching your setup and how to dial it in is very important. Best of luck on the new setup Joe.

Now I had an idea on how to pipe the gates for my setup, Mike let me hear your thoughts on this. Gonna use the gate off the drivers side manifold, this is the auxiliary gate kit from elite for one gate. The second gate is going to go off the passenger up pipe and dump to the down pipe just like the regular gate kit elite offers for stock turbos. I'm gonna pipe in a 3rd gate to dump pressure from between stages, thinking I might need this for nitrous and like mike said earlier it's better to have it and not use it than not have it and need it. I'm also going to run the 1.28 housing on the big turbo, although with the 3rd gate I'm wondering if I really need it. Hmmmm. I'm gonna run pressure sensors on both manifolds and one between stages to be able to monitor everything. Least that's the plan to control things right now. More thought and research for me to do before I start building.

My only concerns with setting it up like I stated is I'd be relying solely on the vgt turbo to spool the big turbo. Maybe dumping between stages is the way to go and then some how have a gat to go from there around the big turbo.